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Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 13:54
by Sunmaster14
Thank you for very interesting Season 0 and all the great work done in these difficult times.
Question on arena games that will not be finished until 15.04 - will their results count for Season 1? Is there some mechanism in plans to avoid a stalling behavior by players? (i.e. a Through the Ages game can easily last a month if both players do their turns late, if players who know they will lose the current game will start stalling, I will soon have a long list of unfinished games).
I have not observed such behavior so far but certainly regard this as a potential exploit that needs to be eliminated to ensure the integrity of this new competitive format. Thanks!
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 14:20
by Espina
Thanks for all the great work, sourisduderest and een!
Sunmaster14 wrote: ↑02 April 2020, 13:54
Question on arena games that will not be finished until 15.04 - will their results count for Season 1? Is there some mechanism in plans to avoid a stalling behavior by players? (i.e. a Through the Ages game can easily last a month if both players do their turns late, if players who know they will lose the current game will start stalling, I will soon have a long list of unfinished games).
I have not observed such behavior so far but certainly regard this as a potential exploit that needs to be eliminated to ensure the integrity of this new competitive format. Thanks!
Yes, I agree that this is a potential exploit. Obviously I've never observed it in Arena, because this is the first season, but you definitely see this sort of behavior in tournament games with the fixed time limit, where the player with a lost position but more time on the clock will stall or try to play at awkward times to run the other player out of time. (Same principle!)
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 15:17
by Angela-Joelle
Thank you for all the efforts you made to keep this side going.
But playing in Arena as a premium member was no real fun, waiting waiting and more waiting, disconnected and more disconnection.
I accually started playing Catan as well on asobrain, because of this all. The ranking at Arena is not fair in this way. I sure hope it gets better soon, this was not what I imagined after paying another year.
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 16:03
by CurlingCritter
No need to apologize for the amount of traffic you've been getting lately. It should be a testament to how well you guys run the site. I know I've had 3 friends create accounts, and 1 of them is definitely addicted
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 16:15
by kam2015
Another amazing subtract occurred in my last checkers in ARENA mode , when I get neutralized comment but
after that , when I came back to main page , I suffered to a subtract ARENA page , 12 negative , from total score !!!
I have checked (in disconnection time)that it was for BGA fault (my connection to all sites were without any problem)
I don't know how BGA will be success in handling these many issues that leave bad feelings
Don't reduce REPUTATION of opponents in ARENA mode but if you think it needs (!) , don't deprive them from writing comments
It's better using general ( none ARENA ) mode starting process for ARENA with a little changes in code and policy ,means not revealing
for further preventing by weak opponents or for another reasons !
Another suggestion is improving code for unfair scoring bug situation by establishing compensations service (manual or automatic)
And final word ; my final word is to BGA members to applying fair behavior manner by telling this ;
WAIT FOR OPPONENT MORE IN DISCONNECTING OR EVEN EXIT WITH NEUTRAL SCORE
That I think it's better consider a REPUTATION score for those who regard more their competition members ! in both ARENA and general
thanks to all
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 17:11
by sprockitz
you say no major changes but I really hope you fix these two things before starting a new season.
The bug where when a player quits all non-quitting players are considered to tie. This means players can lose arena points without even playing because someone else quit. It is very unfair to consider the game a tie.
The fact that multiplayer games and longer games require way more time to reach a reasonable ranking value. For multiplayer first in a 4 player game should be worth more than first in a 2 player game...this is how it works for Elo, why was it abandoned for Arena ranking? It makes longer multiplayer games take too long to get an accurate arena score. And short games it can fluctuate too much. (you can play 30 lost cities games in the time it takes to play 1 game of Terra Mystica...yet lost cities ratings move faster per game (b/c it is 2p versus 4p). Increase K for longer games, don't divide directly gains by player count (do what is done in Elo here).
Final thing for a few specific games...try 2p for palaces of Carrara and Troyes...both are great at this player count (more strategic for sure) and make it easier to find games. I'm sure there are more games like this but these are the ones that I play frequently that would improve arena mode the most with a change and I can't speak to all the games I don't play.
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 17:53
by MilosNorthShore
You guys are doing great. No worries.
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 18:11
by Raining Tacos
Thanks for the effort BGA, good job!
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 18:29
by Sunmaster14
sprockitz wrote: ↑02 April 2020, 17:11
you say no major changes but I really hope you fix these two things before starting a new season.
The bug where when a player quits all non-quitting players are considered to tie. This means players can lose arena points without even playing because someone else quit. It is very unfair to consider the game a tie.
The fact that multiplayer games and longer games require way more time to reach a reasonable ranking value. For multiplayer first in a 4 player game should be worth more than first in a 2 player game...this is how it works for Elo, why was it abandoned for Arena ranking? It makes longer multiplayer games take too long to get an accurate arena score. And short games it can fluctuate too much. (you can play 30 lost cities games in the time it takes to play 1 game of Terra Mystica...yet lost cities ratings move faster per game (b/c it is 2p versus 4p). Increase K for longer games, don't divide directly gains by player count (do what is done in Elo here).
Final thing for a few specific games...try 2p for palaces of Carrara and Troyes...both are great at this player count (more strategic for sure) and make it easier to find games. I'm sure there are more games like this but these are the ones that I play frequently that would improve arena mode the most with a change and I can't speak to all the games I don't play.
+1
Re: Arena season 0: the Final Sprint !
Posted: 02 April 2020, 23:31
by psrv
sprockitz wrote: ↑02 April 2020, 17:11
The bug where when a player quits all non-quitting players are considered to tie. This means players can lose arena points without even playing because someone else quit. It is very unfair to consider the game a tie.
You guys a doing a great job but this item is really a no-brainer to have fixed. It is indeed very unfair to lose arena points when someone else quits, which sometimes happens even before a move is made.