Arena mode end of season - elo changes

[sourisdudesert]

Have you thought of warning about this in advance?
How is the slowest player determined if the number of moves they have made is different?
During this day, my number of defeats in Clans has increased by 25%

The warning was on turn based lobby page + FAQ + Season 3 announcements. We're going to improve it for Season 4 by integrated it into game pages.

Slowest player = the player who consume the most time during the whole game = the player who is the most responsible of the "season overtime".

[sourisdudesert]

What was wrong with the last season implementation of simply removing those games from the Arena tally, and allowing players to finish them as a normal turn-based game?

Please read my previous link with all explanations.

[Woooland]

[quote=sourisdudesert post_id=76398 time=1609861221
[/quote]

Slowest player = the player who consume the most time during the whole game = the player who is the most responsible of the "season overtime".
[/quote]

It is so easy to abuse...
Just no words.

[The Kestrel]

What was wrong with the last season implementation of simply removing those games from the Arena tally, and allowing players to finish them as a normal turn-based game?

Please read my previous link with all explanations.

I edited my last post, then saw your reply here.

Thank you for linking the post. I have read it now, and here are my thoughts:

The current implementation also opens up a new form of cheating - if a fast player knows that they have less time used, they can just not finish a game at the end of the season knowing that they will win it, preventing a loss of ELO and arena rank.

The "play the longest turn" solution solves A and B from the previous thread, while C could still be a problem. If I could propose a possible solution here:

Players cannot start a live arena game when they have a turn-based arena game of the same type (either it's their turn, OR just as long as they are playing that game). Non-ideal, as it limits turn-based and live-based arena games, but does allow players to play both, not just at the same time. Additionally, I suspect that games are either mostly played turn-based or live, depending on their type and length (e.g., race for the galaxy vs. Through the Ages.)

There's also a problem with multiple player games (3+), as the slowest player is the loser, with all other players tying.

[Ranior]

There's also a problem with multiple player games (3+), as the slowest player is the loser, with all other players tying.

That's what the start of this thread was about, and we've already got confirmation that it will be corrected for season 4.

There was a long discussion on how to make turn based arena work at all, be thankful it was brought back. I'm still of the opinion that tournaments should be improved and that is what turn based players should play in, much of the compromises of the arena system really on make sense for real time games. Turn based arena has many issues, and the system that is now in place is probably the best way to still allow those games to be played. It's very important to have the rule that is here that ends all turn based arena games at the deadline. Yes there is a small edge where the player who has been playing the fastest potentially can stall out a game, but they have the issue then that they can't take any moves in their other turn based arena games either....so there is a very very narrow path to abuse here. I'm all for a better solution being found, but after a lot of discussion at the end of season 2 and start of season 3, I think the current system is probably as good as we're going to get.

[poptasticboy]

I'm not that bothered what you decide to do regarding ELO changes, but it is SO frustrating to have my turn-based games ended prematurely. I've invested so much time and thought into them, over weeks, just to have the games ended without being able to complete them! What a waste of time!
I don't care how you resolve the ELO issues, but for goodness sake let me finish the games!!
Why can't you do whatever ELO changes you need to do, then let the rest of the game play out (without making further ELO changes when it ends, like Training Mode)?
Honestly, I'm now reluctant to play in Arena again, if there's a chance I'll be wasting my time because my games will be stopped in the middle!

[Ranior]

They have wrote that all turn based games would be ended this way in the announcements for arena season 3, and now for arena season 4.

If you are aware, you should be able to know when you can still join a game and finish it, and when you likely cannot. Arena seasons run for 3 months, feel free to join a bunch at the start of this season, and towards the end just don't start any arena tables. You're free to create as many turn based simple tables with the same settings as you like also if you want to play more games and not have to fear about them concluding.

[poptasticboy]

They have wrote that all turn based games would be ended this way in the announcements for arena season 3, and now for arena season 4.

If you are aware, you should be able to know when you can still join a game and finish it, and when you likely cannot. Arena seasons run for 3 months, feel free to join a bunch at the start of this season, and towards the end just don't start any arena tables. You're free to create as many turn based simple tables with the same settings as you like also if you want to play more games and not have to fear about them concluding.

Well I wasn't aware, I'd seen no announcement that my games would be ended prematurely, and I see no reason why ANY game should be ended prematurely, when people have invested so much time and thought into the game. As I said, they can do whatever they feel they need to regarding ELO etc., I really don't care, but let me complete the games I've started and become invested in!

[varietyCH]

The warning was on turn based lobby page + FAQ + Season 3 announcements. We're going to improve it for Season 4 by integrated it into game pages.

Slowest player = the player who consume the most time during the whole game = the player who is the most responsible of the "season overtime".

Is there a way I could know who much time I've consumed _before_ the game ends?

Of course I see the statistics after the game Ended, but where do I see it during the game?

There was a Backgammon Game which I'm responsible in your opinion where my opponent couldn't believe he won. I had only for pieces left on my last column and the die already showed that I Won this game, only the moves where not executed as I was offline or playing on other tables in which case the "go to next table" functionality is responsible. Backgammon I usually never Skip and play fast as soon as the table is presented, I can't remember that the clock was below 2 Days ever.. So me using up way more time than my opponent (which I'm OK with the fact he won btw.) was because this table was behind other tables.

In case you keep this "people using thinking time loose the game"-logic there should be a ranking in games with 3 or more players as well.
Let's assume 2 player(A and B) play really fast and the other two(C and D) use more thinking time.
Player D is in a timezone more than 6 hours behind player C. Therefore after the last move of Player C player D is sleeping and always get a couple hours thinking time added.

Now player A and B in the same timezone as Player D play within several minutes. Now the thinking time for player C adds up. After C makes their next turn there are several rounds where player D and C always play within minutes after the player before them but player A and B use more time because they are in school, at work, watching a movie or whatever. In my opinion they are the ones slowing down the game progression, but because they never receive the "being asleep"-penalty they will win the game for sure. Between Player C and D the thinking time difference is only a couple of minutes. Still one player of them is the alone "responsible" for the game going on for more than 5 Days?

Well, that was quit a long posting and I hope we could help you find other Solutions for Season 6. Where should this discussion take place? I wrote some thoughts in the post you linked but no response so far. Is the bug and suggestion System better suited for you?

As I'm thankfull for all the work you've put in BGA and understand that eventually changes will take time and we have to life with the current solution:

Where may I lookup my used thinking time for tables in progress?