IS BGA CHEATER and controle the dice rollers ?

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Tisaac
Posts: 2736
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: IS BGA CHEATER and controle the dice rollers ?

Post by Tisaac »

Ze Monstah wrote: 28 March 2021, 19:14
Tisaac wrote: 28 March 2021, 19:07
Ze Monstah wrote: 28 March 2021, 19:00

I agree with you that backgammon seems less random on this site.

But... you can play against 100 doubles, people will still say it is... rare, but possible, and you only have bad luck. Nothing you can do
Anything you say and even if you bring stats... The result reply will be: it is rare, but COMMON AND POSSIBLE. YOU ARE JUST UNLUCKY.
So really not worth trying to get into this, because anything is possible and acceptable (even if your opponents get 100000... doubles in a row).

And for all of you who say that no statistic or proof is brought (about doubles, in this case), try to understand please: THERE IS A DAILY LIMIT OF REPLAYS!
I personally stopped playing BG here, after seeing how sad things go...
To the OP: I think you should try to play games where more brain is needed. You might have a bigger chance, there.
So what ? Just collect data as you play. If you are a determined player, it shouldnt take you that long to gather data significant enough.
So what nada... I am not a determined player anymore, as to gather some data which will be automatically dismissed as unconvincing by any of you defenders (again... even 1000000 doubles in a row will be found acceptable by you, being a luck based game), but i was determined enough to express my thoughts, which are unshared by you.
Again... SOMEONE SHOULD TAKE A RE-LOOK ON THE ALGORITHM USED.
Good luck playing backgammon.

// Roll dices
$dice1_value = bga_rand(1, 6);
$dice2_value = bga_rand(1, 6);

bga_rand() function is defined like this:

function bga_rand( $min=null, $max=null )
{
if( $min === null && $max === null )
return random_int( 0, getrandmax() ); // For compatibility
else
return random_int( $min, $max );
}
Express a though is something, accusing BGA of rigging the game is something else. So as for any accusation, you need to show evidence, and in this case it's called statistics. The longest sequence of double in a row i indeed completely meaningless in itself, but a lot of other statistical computation can be done and are more effective to test for accurate randomness.
As for the algorithm used, the code seems 100% fine for me.
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Romain672
Posts: 1349
Joined: 05 April 2016, 13:53

Re: IS BGA CHEATER and controle the dice rollers ?

Post by Romain672 »

Ze Monstah wrote: 28 March 2021, 19:00But... you can play against 100 doubles, people will still say it is... rare, but possible, and you only have bad luck.
I would personnally not do that.
But you can do another calculation, which is much more chaostic.

Since the last year, I checked a lot this kind of subject, and calculating the odds of unlikely events.
And the most unlikely events I find where your series of defeat of 15 or 18 (that i estimate at 1/20 or 1/160 since you are in the website), or a serie of differences of doubles in backgamon of -18 in 4 games (that i estimate at 1/10k).

But, outside from that, I never found any probability <1/10k.
Go for it, find me 2/3 of them, but the more you go to weird stuff (=not taking a person active on a forum, not taking usual stuff like doubles for a specific player or series of victory/defeat), and the less value it will have.

From all a community, finding a so low number of weird things is really not strange to me.
Half of the post are about a commun situation, most of the other half is about proba of ~1/1000.
There is no consistency of less likely events.
User avatar
Ze Monstah
Posts: 677
Joined: 10 October 2019, 08:08
Location: Brăila, Romania

Re: IS BGA CHEATER and controle the dice rollers ?

Post by Ze Monstah »

Tisaac wrote: 28 March 2021, 20:22
Ze Monstah wrote: 28 March 2021, 19:14
Tisaac wrote: 28 March 2021, 19:07
So what ? Just collect data as you play. If you are a determined player, it shouldnt take you that long to gather data significant enough.
So what nada... I am not a determined player anymore, as to gather some data which will be automatically dismissed as unconvincing by any of you defenders (again... even 1000000 doubles in a row will be found acceptable by you, being a luck based game), but i was determined enough to express my thoughts, which are unshared by you.
Again... SOMEONE SHOULD TAKE A RE-LOOK ON THE ALGORITHM USED.
Good luck playing backgammon.

// Roll dices
$dice1_value = bga_rand(1, 6);
$dice2_value = bga_rand(1, 6);

bga_rand() function is defined like this:

function bga_rand( $min=null, $max=null )
{
if( $min === null && $max === null )
return random_int( 0, getrandmax() ); // For compatibility
else
return random_int( $min, $max );
}
Express a though is something, accusing BGA of rigging the game is something else. So as for any accusation, you need to show evidence, and in this case it's called statistics. The longest sequence of double in a row i indeed completely meaningless in itself, but a lot of other statistical computation can be done and are more effective to test for accurate randomness.
As for the algorithm used, the code seems 100% fine for me.
"thought"

For some IT persons, the code looks NOT OK.

Neither the OP nor me ACCUSED anyone (per se). Otherwise I would have used "I accuse (...)".

I personally expressed annoyance towards some situations which to me, look very strange (even when I was winning... a lot, with huge ELO), while to you and the bunch, look normal and acceptable.

No need to debate this any further.
I was just answering the OP, and offering you a reason for the lack of evidence.
I oferred pieces of evidence in the past, but they were
obviously dismissed for subjective reasons, and I'll certainly not going to repeat the mistake, since i put the game in the recycle bin.
When life gives you a ZeMon, make ZeMonade...
https://youtu.be/fq_EAESWlOs
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