Board Game Arena

RobertBr wrote: ↑30 May 2021, 17:09

Matt_B_76 wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 14:25 ....they do it to try and ensure 2nd or just to deny points to the other player(s)...this REALLY bothers me.

Anyway, I know I must sound like a bitter player ...

Yes, you do. You also sound like you do not entirely understand board games. 2nd place is better than 3rd place, if a player can elevate themselves from one to the other by denying you points it is entirely appropriate that they do so. If you did not mean that, well then you should not have said it, we can only evaluate your meaning by what you post.

2nd place is the first loser

pond26535 wrote: ↑28 June 2021, 00:30 2nd place is the first loser

That is totally correct.
And an acknowledgment of difference between 2nd and later places. Later places are not the first loser.
Since they are different, it is no wonder that some people prefer 1st loser over 2nd loser when winning is unattainable.

LuthienCeleste wrote: ↑28 June 2021, 17:18

pond26535 wrote: ↑28 June 2021, 00:30 2nd place is the first loser

That is totally correct.
And an acknowledgment of difference between 2nd and later places. Later places are not the first loser.
Since they are different, it is no wonder that some people prefer 1st loser over 2nd loser when winning is unattainable.

Very rarely is winning unattainable, just unprobable

pond26535 wrote: ↑29 June 2021, 00:17 Very rarely is winning unattainable, just unprobable

Indeed, euro game designers generally try to keep all players engaged in the game as much as possible.
I'll discuss probabilities at a later time. But for the case of unattainable winning, consider this scenario.
Player P has 5 points
Player X has 10 points
Player Y has 3 points.

It is the last turn. Player P plays. Game is over after P plays. P has two legal moves:
* Move A: P loses 1 point. X loses 7 points. Y gains 2 points. Result : Y 1st (5 points), P 2nd (4 points), X 3rd (3 points)
* Move B: P gains 1 point. X gains 0 points. Y gains 4 points. Result : X 1st (10 points), Y 2nd (7 points), P 3rd (6 points)

P is playing in BGA. P is a fair and competitive player. P wants to raise ELO and wants to compete in Arena season.
How should P play?
My answer is move A. If yours is also A then we can discuss the more nuanced case of unprobable but not impossible victory. Otherwise we'll have to agree to disagree.