Players?

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RobertBr
Posts: 561
Joined: 08 July 2016, 15:57

Re: Players?

Post by RobertBr »

John Steidl wrote: 09 October 2021, 18:17 Next I tried to create a solo game to explore the module in more detail. Unfortunately, BGA seems to be very unintuitive in this regard. Looks like you have to set the number of players to 1, but then to start a game it requires you to "open your table to other players". And then gives you a warning that you are about to play a game with real players. Which is clearly not what I wanted, and probably not what was going to happen.

Looks like there is a video as well, and I will try that later when I have more time. At this point, though, I have a hard time imagining that I would play any wargame on BGA when Vassal is available.
There are a set of walk through videos specifically on USE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5QRSF9 ... vJqyAQJwwv

I cannot imagine playing vassal if a BGA module like this is available. The suspicion, but hard to confirm, is that what makes vassal seem more intuitive is its lack of rules enforcement which allows players to ignore the fiddlier parts of the game.
John Steidl
Posts: 10
Joined: 22 September 2021, 11:08

Re: Players?

Post by John Steidl »

Thanks for the response. I found your video series in one of the other threads, and it would be a great link from inside the game. Incredibly helpful, and really necessary; many, many thanks!

On platforms, Vassal is great for wargamers. I can grab a module for any wargame and immediately start playing with anyone who knows Vassal. With BGA, every module is a new experience just to learn the module mechanics. With something as complex as most wargames, I don't want to be trying to learn the game rules and a module interface at the same time if I don't have to. But that's just the guys I play with; can't comment on anyone else.

As to whether rules enforcement is important, we could have some interesting conversations around that. I think it's pretty necessary for a platform like BGA that is heavily focused on competitive gaming between players who don't know each other. Most users of Vassal are already friends though, and the gaming tends to be more casual. It's also an industry standard playtest platform, and the major publishers rely on going public with their Vassal module very soon after the game starts to ship. Trying to pack rules enforcement into a module on the same timeline and budget would be a non-starter. (I can't imagine how much time Lunalol has spent on USE, and I imagine he's not being paid for it.)

I also don't think most wargamers using Vassal would feel like they need the enforcement. Again, casual games between friends for the most part, and it's usually a lot less painful to ignore a minor mistake than to stop while you try to figure out why the interface isn't letting you do something you think you should be able to do. Also, one of the things I've noticed about BGA and some TTS is that a high level of scripting and automated rules enforcement can slow down my development of a deep understanding of a new game. (That last is a trade-off, not a critique.)

Anyway, if someone asked me for a recommendation on a digital platform for boardgaming, I would explain the differences between BGA and TTS and point them to both. Vassal wouldn't get a mention. For a wargamer, the question wouldn't come up.

It would be great to see a few more wargames on BGA, to get some cross-over going both ways, but they probably need to be carefully chosen. The vast majority of hex-based wargames would not be popular with the broader boardgaming community here. Space Empires was a solid choice for the theme and relative simplicity (compared to other wargames.) The COIN series (GMT) have interesting themes and are very popular, but quite high complexity that would require a lot of rules coding. Something like Caesar: Rome vs Gaul (GMT) would be a brilliant choice. Terrific 2-player game; solid theme; cards; some go-like mechanics with no hexes; also short and not too complex by wargame standards.

Thanks again for your videos!
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Tigrouh00h00
Posts: 22
Joined: 09 November 2020, 10:46

Re: Players?

Post by Tigrouh00h00 »

It's also worth mentionning that Sal Vasta is regularly uploading updated Living Rules, both the Living Rulebook and Living Playbook on ye' ol' BGG USE Files Section.

Praised be thou because even veteran players need to check rules from time to time when planning their operations.
Questions like...
-"does his abandonned air unit block my supply line?"
-"will this marker be a +2 to my offense or a -2 to his defense?"
-"If i declare war on this country, then will he be able to counterattack my other faction?"

The answers are there somewhere in the dense but short Rulebook.
Which is why this game is awesome.
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