Board Game Arena

RicardoRix wrote: ↑15 February 2022, 22:52 Removing ELO from Hanabi should alleviate these type of problems. Simple change, everyone benefits.
Make it ELO == number of games played, if you want to find experienced players.

Not sure how this would be solving the issue of people throwing the game.

I like having an ELO in Hanabi, so I don't think "everyone" would benefit . Of course right now, it's very flawed because people avoid loss of points by abandonning the game so much (some people abandon 30% or more of their started games). But it's still a nice thing to have some up and down after won/lost games and it's not like it shows nothing about skill level. I think it's still a better measure than number of games played. Even with those crazy inflated abandonner-ELOs.

But I think ELO for coop-games should get fixed in the way that resigned games should get appropriate ELO-change (= when you abandon you get the normal -10 points). I think a resign-button would be a good thing here instead of abandon. It might also help against the intentional bombs. Resigning feels better than being bombed out on purpose.

Silene wrote: ↑16 February 2022, 17:03

RicardoRix wrote: ↑15 February 2022, 22:52 Removing ELO from Hanabi should alleviate these type of problems. Simple change, everyone benefits.
Make it ELO == number of games played, if you want to find experienced players.

Of course right now, it's very flawed because people avoid loss of points by abandonning the game so much

You've said it yourself, if there is no ELO gain/loss then people would not abandon games and get so funny about it.

I didn't say it would solve all the problems, but I'm guessing it would solve a lot.

The ELO system is a pasted on effect, and nothing to do with the rules of the game, for a lot of reasons ELO makes a lot of sense for competitive play, but even then some users have a problem with it.
For co-op games it just seems to feed bad sentiment into a game that's meant to be fun and co-operative.
It's kinda weird coz BGA have a huge issue with forum and chat etiquette, but don't seem to care about this divisive split in community when it comes to hanabi.

I think ufm was trying to start this exact debate about ELO scoring for co-op games:
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... =3&t=24363

RicardoRix wrote: ↑16 February 2022, 17:25 You've said it yourself, if there is no ELO gain/loss then people would not abandon games and get so funny about it.

I think they would still abandon as they are so much used to only playing the perfect games.

But I think a message that an abandonnend games is a lost game somehow doesn't sink through. If abandonning would be treated like a bombed game, that might actually help, because it means continuing can still get you something. ELO-wise that is of course. Well - I think the game is worth playing + continuing independent from ELO. But it would be great to not meet so many people who try to bully you into abandonning. I think that could be achieved with a fix of abandon = loss, but not with just switching ELO off completely.

I think all the ELO change ideas are valid ideas — although, in the end, proposed changes would probably affect the entire BGA structure so IDK how plausible they would be, or if they will be ignored (/not implemented), or if implemented, how much innocent players would get caught up and affected by these; in the short-term, I would think at least a way to report bombers would be a good way to at least bring this to attention. I also don't know how much ties/say community moderators can have in the site development background, but if they get a large amount of reports for it, maybe they'd be motivated to implement one of the proposed long-term changes?

Also, I don't have much a strong stance on the commonly seen "abandon = loss" proposition, but I would like to point out that "abandon = loss" generally will affect people who, in the rare case, do abandon because of actual urgent matters or having to leave because actual IRL reasons (although yes, I'm aware a number of these excuses are probably lies just to "justify" getting the other person to abandon) — and BGA has made a point that you never know if someone has actual matters going on so you can't assume trolling or lying (in all honesty a fair stance, if unfavorable to Hanabi alone). If you could come up with an idea that addresses that too, perhaps you'd get more weight to that suggestion.