Board Game Arena

yark wrote: ↑19 May 2022, 21:41 So bots is allowed?

I have found wiki page for developers https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Bots_ ... telligence
So for developers bots are allowed

That is a Wiki page written primarily by a single user, Victoria La (https://boardgamearena.com/player?id=84125723), who, while they have developped a few BGA games, is not an admin and does not set BGA policy. Regardless of the developpement info that is documented on that Wiki page, what matters is the official BGA Terms of Use.

And FWIW, the information on that page appears specifically related to testing and for use within the BGA Studio developpement environment, not on the public-facing website for player-users.

yark wrote: ↑19 May 2022, 21:41 So bots is allowed?

I have found wiki page for developers https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Bots_ ... telligence
So for developers bots are allowed

This is to allow a 'bot player' to play against, instead of a human player.
Have you ever played Can't Stop ? - It's the only game that has an AI / bot player to play against.
This is simply a document to show a developer how an AI bot can be implemented.

I think the following are goods rules of thumb:

Is ELO involved(= not a training game) : no outside assistance allowed, no bots, no engines, human vs human. You can take notes from your own observation.

Is it a training game(=no ELO) and you play against someone you don't know: the person needs to be informed, as this greatly affects gameplay and the joy that comes from it. No one likes losing 10 times in a row, which is likely when pitted against a well programmed bot.

Is it a training game against someone you know: strongly discouraged, but only you'd know how they'd feel about it when you told them afterwards. You could play a single testgame and afterwards inform them you did an experiment, lets say a Turing test, and ask if they noticed. Do not do this to people you don't know.

So I just saw this today (I'm a french guy so my screen is in french...)
I think, regarding this topic, that this kind of player is not allowed to play (or is it like a 2nd degree humor ?)

Nicely spotted Alex.

At least this bot is open about it, and did not have many games played. They're also open to a friendly abandonnement of the game.
But it doesn't play training games, which is unfortunate.

So I don't know if it's allowed or not. I personally would not have an issue with that bot.

Alex59000 wrote: ↑30 June 2022, 13:34 So I just saw this today (I'm a french guy so my screen is in french...)
I think, regarding this topic, that this kind of player is not allowed to play (or is it like a 2nd degree humor ?)

Awesome, just sent a challenge to it.

Nicely spotted Alex.

At least this bot is open about it, and did not have many games played. They're also open to a friendly abandonnement of the game.
But it doesn't play training games, which is unfortunate.

So I don't know if it's allowed or not. I personally would not have an issue with that bot.

Thank you, I was simply looking for a game to play when I saw this. I have nothing against this kind of account, because from the point of view of the developer it can be challenging to find out the right solution, and for the players to have something like an AI to play against, but it can bias the ELO scale at the end. So maybe he can change from "normal" to "training" mode to keep developing his bot ?

Hi guys. I'm the Squadro "bot".
First of all, I asked for permission to BGA and they said that as long as I don't abuse the server and that I am open with the other users telling them that I am a bot they're ok with me having this account.
Under those terms, I have created my "bot" account but it is actually a human behind it inputting the game on a computer program in real-time, so I won't abuse the servers.
Also, I will always show the message that you just saw in the screenshot, and when some player joins the game the first thing I do is send them a chat message warning them that I am a bot, and that if they don't want to play against me we can abandon the game collectively. Nobody will be deceived.
I think this is the most open and fair way to create a bot account, and I will attach to these ethics. I think it will be nice to see bots in other games to put other AIs to the test, as long as they respect these principles too.

Alex59000 wrote: ↑30 June 2022, 14:54 ... but it can bias the ELO scale at the end.

Why?

That is not really how Elo works. If the bot is strong (as it likely will be for a pure abstract) it will have a high Elo, if it is weak it will have a low one.

AlphaSquadro wrote: ↑30 June 2022, 14:58 Hi guys. I'm the Squadro "bot".
First of all, I asked for permission to BGA ...

It would be ideal if BGA did issue some clear guidance. I can think of a few things that would help:

* All bot usernames should begin 'BOT_' and Bots should always warn players and agree to abandon games before a human has played a move.

* Bots should clearly state what games they can play on their profile and the nature of the bot that is being used.

* Bot accounts should universally accept requests to play.

For example it would be better if your profile explained your 'centaur' status, that a program is being consulted but the moves are being entered by an opponent.