How does Gaia project´s auction works?

[Wildhorn]

I came here to get an explanation of this very confusing system. Now I understand, but I do not like it much.


Ex:
Faction 1: I bid 20 (I want it the most and willing to pay 20 points for it)
Faction 2: I bid 10 (I want it the 2nd most and willing to pay 10 points for it)
Faction 3: I bid 0 (I really don't want it)

At first I thought it was that it would bid up to 20 points to get Faction 1 but if someone else bid 21+ on it, it would default to Faction 2 and bid up to 10 points on it unless someone bid 11+, then get Faction 3.


So as the system works right now, with my example, how should I bid to get the result I expect, aka bid a maximum on Faction 1 and not default to Faction 2 before that maximum on Faction 1 is reached?

Thanks.

[Kayvon]

You'll automatically bid on the faction with the largest difference between your max bid (your level of interest) and the current bid. There is no way to ensure you bid the full 20 before going to your second choice.

Instead, you should adjurt your numbers to show more interest in the first faction, perhaps by bidding 30. Once it reaches 21, you'll bid on faction 2 with 1.

[Kayvon]

Now I understand, but I do not like it much.

It's probably worth quoting the original announcement for the bidding system.

Happy Saturday morning. We've completed the implementation of new features that include banning, drafting, and auctions. We've also been in touch with the publisher to receive approval of these optional features.

Months of planning and volunteer hours have gone into making these a top-notch experience. Having said that, we also recognize that no single solution will please everyone. Fortunately, these optional experiences don't replace the core game experience. If you discover this particular implementation isn't for you, we would invite you to continue to enjoy the existing experience supported by the official ruleset.

Enjoy the new features! I look forward to seeing more varied factions in upcoming games!

[RicardoRix]

I see a lot of complaints that people don't understand the wiki's wording, but no suggestions of better wording. How would you have worded this?

Here lies the problem, because you have to understand the auction first to be able write the explanation.
It's not possible to understand the auction system from this document alone. And not enough that you'd feel confident that you can (re-)write the exact operation of something that is at least partially hidden. Together with the motivation to do so as well.

I would back up the explanation with an actual example with figures along the way.

[Kayvon]

I have written, revised, and re-revised the explanation in the wiki. It even includes an example already!

After reading this thread, how would you reword it now that you understand it? I see lots of complaints and I read them all closely. With hundreds of volunteer hours poured in, it's hard to buy the argument that I simply lack motivation. With double-digit number of revisions to that wiki, I've spent time to make it as good as I know how. I've also added log messages when bidding occurs to show exactly how the bids go down.

If you have a specific suggestion to improve things, please share it and I'll continue to provide revisions. Without that, the response feels ad hominem, intended to attack the volunteers rather than contribute to improving things.

[RicardoRix]

I was talking about the motivation from someone else to have editing the wiki. You're taking this far too literally like a personal vindication. It's not. If I didn't care also, then I wouldn't be responding.

This argument you've made up is a bit along the same lines as the document itself. It's only inside your head that it all makes sense.

I can't tell you how to re-write it, as I don't fully understand it.

I also don't know how many times you've re-written the document, why would I ?


I would do this - take the text to a person that's never played the game, like your dad. Explain the bare minimum like there are 4 players trying to bid for 4 different boards. And then get them to read the text, and re-explain back to you what they understand. Any question they ask is a hint to the text you would need to provide.

When you see the log, it's already too late, you've already made your decision. And this is a piece of the puzzle you'd need together with the document to try and solve the riddle.

Auctions for Drafting Factions
Each player submits the maximum amount they are willing to bid for each faction that has been drafted. Once all bids are submitted, a round-robin auction is automatically conducted in turn order until each player has the top bid on one faction. During the round-robin portion, each player automatically bids on the faction with the greatest difference between the faction's current bid and that player's maximum possible bid.


A typical auction might look like this behind the scenes.

1) The first player bids zero VP on the faction that has their highest maximum bid (i.e. the faction they wanted most)

2) If the second player submitted the same top bid for two different factions, they'll automatically bid zero on the faction no one has picked yet. If they had placed a higher bid on the same faction as player 1, they would have increased that bid to one VP instead.

3) The third player looks at the current bids and compares those to their maximum bid. They'll automatically bid one higher on the faction with the greatest difference between their maximum bid and the current bid of that faction.


This is all resolved quickly and automatically behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for players to get factions for free if no one outbids them.

After the auction, all players are given VP so that the player that paid the most still starts with 10 VP to use during the game.

This is the text I see, where exactly is the example auction with figures?

1) The first player bids zero VP on the faction that has their highest maximum bid (i.e. the faction they wanted most)

This is not clear on what the player actually did, and what is actually automatically happening for them.
My first thought on reading this is - why did the player bid 0 on the faction they really wanted?

[Kayvon]

Your point about someone else (a typical player) editing the wiki is well taken. Thank you for claifying.

You can view the logs before playing the game by looking at other games, ongoing or completed. It's definitely not too late at that point.

You say you don't understand it. Which part don't you understand? Even after reading this whole thread, right? Honest question. You're saying that it only makes sense in my head, but most users (not all) are able to make sense of it by reading the wiki. Some are not. I want to improve it, but the only concrete feedback I've received in this thread was a non-native speaker not understanding what "difference between two values" meant. Outside of that specific feedback, only you can tell me which part doesn't make sense to you. Help me understand what does make sense, what doesn't, and what you've already read/tried.

To add to that, I've also poked my head into several games with new players as they were bidding to solicit feedback. In other words, I've already done what you're suggesting about showing this to someone who isn't familiar with it already (though not my dad specifically). I haven't written this in a vacuum. Some get it, some prefer to learn by playing and don't want to read it, and a few didn't understand it even after reading it. I've put a lot of time into this.

As it's a wiki, you can see how many times it's been revised in the history section. You may not care, but it's there.

The part you've cited is my basic example, running through the three players in a basic format. I used an abbreviated example because a full one would be pages long and even fewer people would bother reading it.

[Kayvon]

My first thought on reading this is - why did the player bid 0 on the faction they really wanted?

Sorry, I overlooked this in my reply. He bids zero because that's the lowest amount he currently needs to bid to be winning that faction.

Ever use eBay? Kind of a similar idea. Your max bid may be $1000, but you'll only automatically bid enough to outbid the highest bidder, which may only be $2. Since he's the first player, a bid of zero is all that's needed to become the highest bidder.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I welcome specific wording suggestions. Not a general idea at this point, but the actual words that you think would improve it. Alternatively, you may edit the wiki directly.

[RicardoRix]

I added an example log from an actual game.
for 'some notable example lines from the log are:' I choose 2 lines, there are more, but it starts to get complicated.

It's notable that it's not possible to see all the bids entered by the players for each faction. It only becomes apparent when they switch bids.

[montybojangles]

As Kayvon has said, for any players who want to see auctions in practice, game logs show the bidding steps, such as in this game. https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=400240823.