You’re losing, they’re lagging.. so just expel them to avoid a loss????!!!!

[RobertBr]

Capitalizing on an error in strategy due to distractions is not the same as expelling someone from a game because you’re losing… esp when there are other options.. withdraw from game or revert to turn-based, etc. However, I do appreciate the point in the second paragraph.

In a two player game it is identical - you lost within the rules of the game. Its a little more awkward in multi-player games because the timing rule has been transferred from the two player scenario and does not work well, though it is still the rule, and while awkward it is still the rule.

[Kruszer]

I was the victim of this tonight and I'm still upset about it.

I was very clearly winning. Actively playing but taking time to think. At some point I guess I ran out of thinking time and IMMEDIATELY the other player jumped on the expel button at the first chance they had. Never mind that I was very clearly there and there and playing a complex game.

Unfortunately, only ten seconds are added per turn on some of these games, which once you're in the red seems to be very hard to get out of unless you play several turns without any thinking at all. This person kept pressing EXPEL at the start of every single turn as soon as those few seconds ran out again. Always expel even though I was playing as fast as I could at this point. This (and that god-awful tick tock sound) added so much stress that it only slowed my thinking process further as I started to panic. I was even typing in the chat begging them to cut me some slack. I'm there and I'm playing and it's not like there was a minute when I walked away and vanished or anything! Just ran out of thinking time.

One of those turns after pressing EXPEL several times in a row over several turns, they got their 30 seconds and succeeded as I lost against the clock while trying to reason with them to stop doing that. That horrible human "won" by expelling me! (Why even play if you're going to "win" so ridiculously? Does that feel great and make them feel superior when they didn't actually win?)

There seems to be no recourse against that kind of pressure tactic because it's officially allowed once the clock runs out, even if it's poor sportsmanship. I really think that expel buttons should not activate for each time-out when only ten seconds were added to the clock and the person hasn't been inactive beyond ten seconds.

EXPEL really should be reserved for people who disappear for a couple of minutes and don't come back!

[Jellby]

That horrible human "won" by expelling me!

No, you lost by using more time than allowed.

[Stuff by Bez]

I would honestly enjoy a 'blitz' mode, where the time limit is much shorter, and you get automatically expelled for taking too much time.

I kinda wish that was an option. (Maybe only for players who have played before or even only for 100+ELO.)

If playing realtime, the amount of time you take is an advantage. If we're equally competent and you have more thinking time than me, of course you'll win.

Managing your time is part of the game.

If you play Go/Chess on a dedicated website with a clock, you will lose automatically when you run out of time.

IMO, being allowed to continue should be seen as the other people/person being kind to you, not the default.

[sesc]

I find the comparison the chess difficult.

In chess, the clock is part of the official rules. Most of the other games available here don't have clock or timing rules. This is basically a custom addition to the official rules.

Personally, I wouldn't expel someone who is in the negative, as long as there is still progress in the game. But I admit, I virtually always play turn-based games. It may be a bit more annoying to have an opponent with negative time in realtime games. But I think, I would also only expel there when the player is not playing anymore. Or appears to play really slowly on purpose while already in negative time.

I know, many people here think differently. The best solution probably is to not give them the opportunity to expel you and play times with slower time controls. And give those players a private red thumb to not play them again.

The only thing I really find abusive is when a player expels you for being negative, when he himself is also in the negative time. This should be forbidden in my opinion.

[RobertBr]

I find the comparison the chess difficult.

In chess, the clock is part of the official rules.

You find it difficult because you don't understand it. The clock is not part of the official rules of Chess, it is part of the rules of specific contexts in which Chess is played (tournaments or clubs) like the timer is part of the rules of this specific context (BGA), the two are exactly equivalent.

[Leard]

I tend to boot players from a game if they go over time based on a few factors. Firstly, their ELO score. I think those with much higher ELO scores should be held to a higher standard. You only get 300+ by playing a lot of games, it's not acceptable to still be running out of time after having played and won so many games. Secondly, I'll consider if they've apologised or explained why they're taking longer. If it's silence from them, then they can expect to be booted. It's rude. You sign up to play within a certain time and then don't even apologise for going over? At least acknowledge that you're taking liberties. And thirdly, based on how much they've been doing this recently. If you karma is already <80%, then you've been doing this a lot recently, and deserve further karma losses. In nearly all cases, I will wait for the -12 hour mark before booting though.

[jesslc]

I was the victim of this tonight and I'm still upset about it.

I was very clearly winning. Actively playing but taking time to think. At some point I guess I ran out of thinking time and IMMEDIATELY the other player jumped on the expel button at the first chance they had. Never mind that I was very clearly there and there and playing a complex game.

Unfortunately, only ten seconds are added per turn on some of these games, which once you're in the red seems to be very hard to get out of unless you play several turns without any thinking at all. This person kept pressing EXPEL at the start of every single turn as soon as those few seconds ran out again. Always expel even though I was playing as fast as I could at this point. This (and that god-awful tick tock sound) added so much stress that it only slowed my thinking process further as I started to panic. I was even typing in the chat begging them to cut me some slack. I'm there and I'm playing and it's not like there was a minute when I walked away and vanished or anything! Just ran out of thinking time.

One of those turns after pressing EXPEL several times in a row over several turns, they got their 30 seconds and succeeded as I lost against the clock while trying to reason with them to stop doing that. That horrible human "won" by expelling me! (Why even play if you're going to "win" so ridiculously? Does that feel great and make them feel superior when they didn't actually win?)

There seems to be no recourse against that kind of pressure tactic because it's officially allowed once the clock runs out, even if it's poor sportsmanship. I really think that expel buttons should not activate for each time-out when only ten seconds were added to the clock and the person hasn't been inactive beyond ten seconds.

EXPEL really should be reserved for people who disappear for a couple of minutes and don't come back!

The time you get at the start of the game is a buffer to allow for the occasional long or complex move. The key word there is occasional. If your turns are regularly taking more than the amount added to the clock each turn, then you really need to switch to playing games on a slower speed setting.

Speaking as a slower player myself, I only ever play real time games in slow speed and even that's too fast for my liking for some games, so I have to stick to turn based for those games. BGA offers us many options for playing speed - I find that making good use of them is the best way to have an enjoyable experience.

It's worth bearing in mind that many people here play so fast that they don't use anywhere near their time limit each turn. While you have the right to use all the time allocated to you, these speedy people prefer to play with people like them. If you're regularly using up close all your time most turns and your opponent isn't, they are probably already feeling like it's a slow dragging game even if you're not actually in the red yet. I recommend just letting those people find other opponents who'll suit their preference better, and using the speed options to make sure that you find opponents who suit yours.

Also if you'd like to know exactly how much time you'll get in a particular game before you start it, here's one way you can find out. (There may be less convoluted ways but this is the one I know):
1. Go to the game page for the game you want to know about and click on "watch a game in progress"
2. Click on a game in the list and under the playing area select the options tab

You will see something like "Game speed: Real-time • Normal speed (+0:14 per turn (maximum 1:42))" This particular example was taken from Sushi Go. In case it's not obvious, this means that in a normal speed game of Sushi Go each player gets 1 minute and 42 seconds on their timer at the start of the game and then every time it's the start of a player's turn the game will add an extra 14 seconds to their timer. The timers also can't go over that max time of 1:42.

Years ago BGA used to include this information alongside the speed settings and you could see it when setting up or joining a game table. I wish it was still there, because I found it useful. But it's not, so I found this roundabout way to get the info. I use it to estimate if I'm likely to be able to keep up in a slow or normal speed real time game without just trying one out (and potentially giving myself a very stressful time, as well as annoying other people). Perhaps it may help you as well.

[nik592]

Years ago BGA used to include this information alongside the speed settings and you could see it when setting up or joining a game table. I wish it was still there, because I found it useful. But it's not, so I found this roundabout way to get the info. I use it to estimate if I'm likely to be able to keep up in a slow or normal speed real time game without just trying one out (and potentially giving myself a very stressful time, as well as annoying other people). Perhaps it may help you as well.

You can still see this, you just need to create your games via the old lobby ("Play Now") rather than the game pages.

[jesslc]

Years ago BGA used to include this information alongside the speed settings and you could see it when setting up or joining a game table. I wish it was still there, because I found it useful. But it's not, so I found this roundabout way to get the info. I use it to estimate if I'm likely to be able to keep up in a slow or normal speed real time game without just trying one out (and potentially giving myself a very stressful time, as well as annoying other people). Perhaps it may help you as well.

You can still see this, you just need to create your games via the old lobby ("Play Now") rather than the game pages.

I always use the old lobby, I just looked again and can't see it anywhere. Where is it? Or is it not visible to me because I'm using a mobile browser to access BGA?