How to avoid quitters and complainers?

[Alison MacPrickle]

Interesting, why do you feel that way? What problems do you envisage?

Chat is the only way to communicate with the people you're playing with for anything beyond just the moves the interface allows.

This is important in general for BGA, to do things like ask if other people want to keep playing after kicking someone out for time violation (most times, I've found people do want to complete the game, and we do, but if nobody says anything, usually everyone just quits), or to ask about game rules you don't understand when you see a move happen that is puzzling, and more.

In Catan, it's especially important for trades, since the trading interface is so bad. You can't say "I can't give you a brick for that, but would you take either a rock or a sheep for it?" without offering each counteroffer one at a time and waiting for everyone to respond. You can't say "sorry I don't have any wood" when someone offers a second trade asking for wood, you just have to wait for them to try a third time if they think maybe there's something you'll take for wood. etc.

And, because I can't stand playing games where someone turns trades off, I always open tables with a message to join this table only if you will keep trades turned on. A few times, someone has just forgotten that, and turned trade notifications off, but when I reminded them of it and asked them to turn trades back on, they said oops sorry and did so.

For other games I can think of a number of other situations too where chat has been necessary for the conduct of the game. And often at or near the end of a game, people will talk about the strategy or moves they could've made (less so in Catan where that's less of a thing).

I think it's an absolutely essential part of a BGA table, and it sucks that the feature us kind of unreliable. I want them to make it better, yes. But removing it or allowing it to be disabled would result in some unplayable or really frustrating tables and I have zero desire to ever be involved in a table where someone can turn the chat off (or make it so they don't see it at all).

Lots of good points there, particularly over trading, which is clunky.

[buu441]

"Mute the chat is a great idea!"

Very very strongly disagree. Just saying that to make sure people here know that the above is not a universal opinion.

If mute chat were added as a feature it would need to include the option to have tables where the mute option is disabled, and there would have to be the ability to avoid any table where chat may be muted. I would absolutely refuse to play at any table where muting the chat is possible.

I don't think anyone is asking for chat to be disabled. You can chat away at the table all you want. But I don't see why you need everyone at the table to read what you are saying in chat. Let people mute if they don't want to see messages from random people in the internet, more often than not those tend to be negative.

[GTSchemer]

Because muting chat in Catan actively sabotages the core of the game, which is discussing trades. It is completely fair that players want to know in advance if their opponents are going to disable this part of the game, before committing to a game.

[Cos-]

I don't think anyone is asking for chat to be disabled. You can chat away at the table all you want. But I don't see why you need everyone at the table to read what you are saying in chat. Let people mute if they don't want to see messages from random people in the internet, more often than not those tend to be negative.

What's the point of chat if the other person can't see it? That's disabling chat, and that's what I meant. There are people here, including you, who are asking for exactly this. I'm saying I think it would be horrible to allow that, and I don't want to ever have anything to do with any game where chat can be muted/disabled in this way by any player.

[buu441]

Because muting chat in Catan actively sabotages the core of the game, which is discussing trades. It is completely fair that players want to know in advance if their opponents are going to disable this part of the game, before committing to a game.

It's a digital implementation. Trades can be offered through the game interfaces, one can argue that you don't need to chat at all to trade, unless you are trying to manipulate someone into giving you a better deal than they should.

I don't think anyone is asking for chat to be disabled. You can chat away at the table all you want. But I don't see why you need everyone at the table to read what you are saying in chat. Let people mute if they don't want to see messages from random people in the internet, more often than not those tend to be negative.

What's the point of chat if the other person can't see it? That's disabling chat, and that's what I meant. There are people here, including you, who are asking for exactly this. I'm saying I think it would be horrible to allow that, and I don't want to ever have anything to do with any game where chat can be muted/disabled in this way by any player.

No, other players that want to see your messages will still see and respond to them. No one is stopping you from typing in chat. Anyway, this is a thread about dealing with toxic people in games. And it is a very simple and effective solution, having the option to mute the offender, or the entire table. Eventually the toxic player should realize no one is listening to them whining at the table. More often than not, one person being toxic turns the entire chat into a cesspool of toxicity.

[Cos-]

I don't think you understand my objection. Chat is only truly enabled if everyone at the table can see what everyone else sent. If there is any way to make some messages hidden from some players, even if it's those players' own actions, then there is effectively no table communication and IMO that destroys the ability to play on BGA. I vehemently object to ever having to be at any table where that can happen. I think it would be a horrible change to BGA. I put that in this thread because some people were proposing this as a "solution" and I want it to be clear to people who think that's a solution, that it actually creates a worse problem - and part of that problem is that some people would object very strongly to this feature altogether. So, it is not a smooth and simple solution like some people in this discussion seemed to think at first.

[Alison MacPrickle]

I'm setting up a new group in BGA, for people with 100% reputation and above, called Catan 100 Club. A group for Catan players whose internet never goes down, who never quit, who never take more than their allotted time and who never complain about being 'unfairly' targeted. Complaints about dice rolls are allowed! Whether you are a low scorer or a high roller, if that sounds like Catan Heaven to you, and you have a 100% reputation, please join.

[Moose 5566]

Just had another game spoiled by a moaner who felt picked on by the robber. I already refuse to play with anyone who has less than 100% Karma, because I am fed up with people quitting just because they are losing. If I'm investing half an hour into a game of Catan, then so should the opposition. I choose who to rob based on who is my biggest threat, and / or who is most likely to have the resources I want. I keep coming up against pathetic moaning complainers. Is there any way of forming a group of like-minded players?!

Some people get picked on by the robber just because they have higher ELO, like it means anything for that particular game. That should not factor in who is the biggest threat. The numbers they are on, what cards they have, what they are going for should be a bigger factor.

[yellowmcflurry]

Can't agree more. I just had a game where a player felt like they were being picked on by the robber which was not true. It was a 3 people game and they were not the person who got robbed the most according to the end game stat. They then went on to insult me and my mum (classic) in the game chat. It just ruined the game for me. I feel like the Catan community can get a bit toxic in a way

[matt979]

I've only seen one player whine about the robber... but it was the same player two different times a few days apart. (Side note, I have no idea if thumbs down applies to tournament or arena games.)

Both times they accused the table of... bad sportsmanship? Coordination? Second time I fired back but that's probably exactly what they wanted. That and being robbed less.