Turn based games limit and reputation

[RazorOz]

Well let's refrain from an useless debate about what's right and wrong and let's see if someone can share with us at which karma does the limit go off.

I will say just one thing: running out of time in real time games is for sure annoying, since you have limited time to play and maybe you have to leave after the game... it's pretty clear that live games have to abide by time constraints.

However, I don't understand how going red in turn based games is annoying.

Sure, if you just abandon the game and then your time depletes that's bad behaviour.

But being behind in time because you had an unexpected event during a day and couldn't play? Well, seems like a bit excessive to me but ok looks like we think different and that's ok.

I rarely time players out, unless they're just obviously not playing/quit, so I have some sympathy for your position, but I will answer why it's still annoying in turn based games from another perspective, particularly if the game in question is > 2 players.

Firstly, there's the element if I set my turn based games to a certain speed, I want it to play at a certain pace, and not take forever, part of that is I find it hard to get into the game if it's just dragging on forever. It's particularly annoying if someone joins and then plays at a speed that they clearly had no intention of ever playing at the speed set (which I know doesn't appear to be the case here).

Secondly, if there's more than 2 players, the issue becomes is that a player in the red with their clock becomes exploitable. Now, as long as you're playing I won't time you out, but what I've seen happen before is another player can use this as a free hit, play to the end, going to win, play on, going to lose, time the player out, void the game, in other words the other parties in the game could never win, and it was always a waste of time.

Thirdly, there can be a situation like this. So I've purposely set my turn based games up so they all finish in time for Christmas, but you could change Christmas to going on holiday etc. Say a player joins and then slows the game down massively, and now the game overruns for the time I thought it would take, and now it's me struggling for time because the game has overrun into a busy period for me instead.

As has been said, your situation is what time jokers are for.

I played a tournament turn base game, Castle of burgundy. My last play was at 4:45 p.m. The next player came to play at 1:22 a.m. the next day then the third player played. Then at 6:21 a.m. the third player skipped my turn which was the very last turn of mine. Between 4:45 p.m. to 1:22 a.m., that's over 8 hours of me waiting (went to bed around 1:00 a.m.). I was cruelly skipped my turn (my very last turn) before I woke up. Even the other player puzzled why the third player had to do that. I don't think I deserve to be penalized because of the time differences among countries. Being skipped the very last turn was crazy. Playing for many games I never skip anyone. I played till the end even I was losing. The rules of skipping players turn needed to be evaluated. I need my deduction points back.

With tournaments specifically, also be aware what you're joining, a lot of tournaments are massive traps because of the crazy clocks. Look at the round time, playing hours if they exist, and time per player, if they don't fit for you don't join, if the round time is unrealistic don't join. I don't know how fast 3 player Castles of Burgundy plays to know if 5 day limit is ambitious, but I know when I see tournaments like that they're often a massive trap that always ends in tears.

[Romain672]

There is still something not great with that situation.
If you have an emergency 0.1% of the time, then:
- in real time game that's fine, you still be at 80%~100% reputation all the time
- in turn based game, you will be at 100% during 999 games, and if you are ejected in 5 turn based game, you will drop to 0%.

So sure, there is time joker, and that could be enough, but the system could be improved.
I proposed a while back to be able to gain reputation above 100%, that could be +0.2% per game until 120%, then +0.1% until 150%, then +0.05%. On my example that would mean the reputation would goes up to 180% after 1000games, so you would need to be expulsed in 6 games to be down to under 70%. That don't resolve that problem but that diminush it.

[nik592]

The other point about karma loss is that for tournaments, the penalties are lesser - only 4 for the first offence, and I'm not sure it even goes up like normal games for subsequent offences. This is probably due to the way that tournament timings can be less forgiving and it's easy to time out without it even being really your fault (short of those who would argue that tournament play is a test of endurance and one should be getting up through the night to make your moves if necessary).

[JoysJoy]

There is still something not great with that situation.
If you have an emergency 0.1% of the time, then:
- in real time game that's fine, you still be at 80%~100% reputation all the time
- in turn based game, you will be at 100% during 999 games, and if you are ejected in 5 turn based game, you will drop to 0%.

So sure, there is time joker, and that could be enough, but the system could be improved.
I proposed a while back to be able to gain reputation above 100%, that could be +0.2% per game until 120%, then +0.1% until 150%, then +0.05%. On my example that would mean the reputation would goes up to 180% after 1000games, so you would need to be expulsed in 6 games to be down to under 70%. That don't resolve that problem but that diminush it.

This would not work! There are a small number of very bad players on BGA who sign up for >1000 tournaments/ games at a time and then disappear for months on end. For whatever reason BGA refuses to address this with the perpetrators. They have to be individually booted from every game over many months as they continue to NEVER login or show up. They are automatically put in into the next game no matter how many hundreds they have failed that same day. Tournament organizers are not allowed to boot them. And you can’t stop them from entering your tournament even though this is exactly how they have done it for many years on end. I once even chose to not join my own tournament because a known, repeat offender signed up for it. As soon as I saw his name, my heart sank because I knew there was no hope this tournament was going to be played out.

He is one of the worst offenders, and he abandons 1500 games+ in each one of many disappearance cycles. His karma goes down to zero. He comes back, plays lucky numbers or can’t stop for a little while, and suddenly can join everything again. So he gleefully signs up for every tournament possible out there, just to leave them all unplayed again. He does not care at all how much harm he causes as he signs up for hundreds of more tournaments.

He has literally ruined 10s of thousands of games, and when you consider how many players are at each table? It’s extraordinary he is somehow above all rules and is allowed to keep doing this. And yes, he has been reported by many people, over and over and over again. It creates an underlying rage in the general population when this keeps happening.

This has been going on and on for many years. There is a reason people get tired of people going overtime. They have been burned too many times. Some of the rules in place were maybe put there because of this.

Personally I now create my own tournaments, if I play them anymore at all. And I control who can get into my tournaments by making my events invite only.

If I am ever tempted by a possible tournament, I go to the community page and see how long has it been since this horrible person has been online? Is his karma still at too low to join before this tournament begins? If there is any chance he can be part of a tournament, I will not be joining it. I will also set an alarm for myself to go back and check a tournament right before it begins. Has he joined yet? If he has, I walk away, because that tournament is 100% guaranteed to never be completed and to just be a source of endless frustration. If he hasn’t, and the tournament is about to begin, and his karma is too low, I will join the tournament I’m interested in. There is never a point to joining any event He is part of. It will never finish and it will just all be ruined and it will frustrate everybody involved.

I am also much more likely to boot people now than I was before. I usually go to their profile and see how often do they do this? Is this the pattern? I also pay attention to how much overtime someone goes. I give a red thumb to people that do this regularly so I could never have to play them again.

I also find the arena to be a better place to play. The players in the arena tend not to this. They tend to be better at taking turns on time. I don’t think I’ve ever had to boot somebody from Arena game.

But we certainly can’t take away the tiny number of limits we have. Karma is easily fixed if you have a one off lowering due to weird circumstances. Many of us are trying to be good community members and good players and we feel bad when our karma goes down. But it comes back easily and you move on and it will all be OK again.

[DonutOnBoard]

Yes, it was my fault that the playing times were during my bedtimes. Just to add that my clock was on red for 1 hours and 4 minutes before I was skipped. Seems to me that it's intentionally skipped for whatever purpose since the last turn of the person who skipped me was about 1 hour before. Got to accept that there are people like that in BGA. I have moved on and will get my karma back. Thanks for replies.