When will Venus be here?

[stillframe]

I would rather see Turmoil next. Venus is the worst expansion. It is Manutech, Viron, and a bunch of stuff I don't want. I have played enough Venus games over the board, and more often than not the track is ignored because the cards are less efficient overall, with underwhelming combos.

[MaKCbIMKo]

My take is the opposite - turmoil is the worst expansion It adds new mechanics that feel overwhelming at times...when Venus just adds 'more' to things we already have (new corps/preludes/projects). I agree that sometimes it's track is being ignored, but that's due to fact that it's not required endgame condition...
(another idea for game configuration: make venus track as required for endgame? - I know that some players have it as home-rule)

[FrankJones]

Turmoil is generally considered worse than Venus.

The next one to be implemented (IF ANY) will be Venus, not Turmoil.

[SuperMartian]

Venus is the worst expansion, prelude and turmoil are considered equally great. Venus ruins the game, most games are setup with prelude, promo, colony, +/- Turmoil considering if players have played turmoil before or not, never Venus. Turmoil also open up all the maps, while Venus contributes nothing but horrendously valued cards and corps. Playing against Manutech is just pain. Unless we get to ban cards and manutech, we need Turmoil first, to counter the entire Venus package by elevating the complexity of the game. Venus is not good, it's the worst, no one ever ask to play with Venus because they want to, they play it because unfortunately it exists.

[danielvictor]

Playing face-to-face,turmoil is the worst expansion.It lengthens the game but provides no real depth.

[SuperMartian]

Playing face-to-face,turmoil is the worst expansion.It lengthens the game but provides no real depth.

You haven't memorized all the events nor understood how to setup long term combos, you think red is just bad and negative TR lengthen the game while the opposite could be true. Turmoil is amazing, and is the highest presentation of the game. Amazonis and Vastitas are designed with Turmoil in mind, with free delegate rebates on those map, the longer we delay Turmoil the longer we don't get to experience those maps fully. What does Venus bring? Milestone and Awards that ruins all the maps, cards and corps that everyone wants to ban? You talk about lengthen the game, guess what? Venus is designed to lengthen the game

[danielvictor]

So everybody gets a free delegate.During their turn,that adds at least one action.Then there are these disasters,which reduce people's resources.Then there are bonuses,that help them.All of these things add length and complexity,but to me,they are just extra headaches,distractions from whichever strategy you're trying to follow.Even the bit that reduces your terraforming rating,to counter the bonuses.

[SuperMartian]

So everybody gets a free delegate.During their turn,that adds at least one action.Then there are these disasters,which reduce people's resources.Then there are bonuses,that help them.All of these things add length and complexity,but to me,they are just extra headaches,distractions from whichever strategy you're trying to follow.Even the bit that reduces your terraforming rating,to counter the bonuses.

Yeah but we are not talking about you. We are talking about the game in general; Turmoil introduces more complexity and balance comparing to Venus, it gives the better player an upper hand, and reduce luck based wins. It's everything that an expansion supposed to do, go Turmoil, death to Venus. Next time you play think about this, how many things that is completely broken in Venus, then you think about how many new and cool things you get to do in Turmoil and if there is anything that is broken. The worst part of Venus is actually how bloated it is, there are some serious F-Tier cards and it just dilutes the deck and ruins the game that way, too. Venus screw up the game both ways, it's incredibly bad, go to discord channel and you will see mostly every single game setting is either POCT or POC rarely POV.

[danielvictor]

Okay,I accept that Venus dilutes the deck,and Turmoil doesn't.But Turmoil provides no real synergies,beyond voting for the party with policies that favour your position [but others will vote for the party that favours theirs]. You have to look for ways to mitigate the oncoming disasters,but that's just an extra headache,an unwelcome dstraction. The game already encourages players to slow-play in certain situsations,so the last thing it needs is something that will lengthen it.

[xspuipuke]

Turmoil is consistently cutting off 1 gen off of our games. With the last gen going usually for over 1 hour, this is a lot of time saved. Yes, you do have some more upkeep and extra actions spent on the Turmoil board but these do not add up to over 1 hour in our experience. In 2p especially, Turmoil games are superfast for us - our record was 1.5 hours total with all expansions included (2p).