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Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 02 October 2025, 20:05
by FrankJones
h_illes wrote: ↑02 October 2025, 19:59
Basically, winning against stronger opponents will give you more points than winning against weaker opponents, and losing against weaker opponents will make lose more points than losing to strong opponents.
For the most part.
It's important to clarify that in this context, "stronger" and "weaker" means having more or less arena points. That does not necessarily mean the player is stronger or weaker in skill level. At the top of the arena hear the end of a season, it likely does.
But, someone could be the best player on the site and yet had only just reached elite level because of not having played Arena much yet that season. That would be a tough matchup for whoever gets matched with that player, since the player would be highly skilled but have a low number of arena points.
Or at least, that's how I've been told it works. Am I mistaken? Does it simply use the Elo difference and double it? I thought it was based on the difference in arena tokens/points.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 02 October 2025, 20:40
by h_illes
FrankJones wrote: ↑02 October 2025, 20:05
I thought it was based on the difference in arena tokens/points.
It is, the Arena rankings are completely separate from the all-time ratings, but both rankings are based on the Elo system, just with different K parameters (Arena uses K=40, all-time uses K=20).
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 02 October 2025, 21:24
by Meeplelowda
FrankJones wrote: ↑02 October 2025, 20:05
Or at least, that's how I've been told it works. Am I mistaken? Does it simply use the Elo difference and double it? I thought it was based on the difference in arena tokens/points.
There is an "Arena Elo" (AES) that remains hidden until you reach elite but is still calculated behind the scenes when you are still silver, gold, etc., and EVERYONE gets reset to 1500 AES at the beginning of the season. So this hypothetical highly skilled player who enters the arena late in the season would still have increased their AES on the way to getting to elite. Depending on the Arena, the top 10 AES can be in the 1700s or 1800s or even 2200s, so yes, the highly skilled player in their very first games of the season may have an artificially low AES compared with 1700-2200, but it will quickly ramp up given the K-factor of 40.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 02 October 2025, 21:34
by FrankJones
I see. That's a good idea, helps mitigate the problem and get people to their appropriate arena spot quickly.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 03 October 2025, 08:40
by Jellby
Also, there's no one-to-one correspondence between AES and Arena league. Someone in the bronze league could have AES well above 1500, and someone in the elite league could have AES well below 1500[*]. That's why restricting by league once you reach elite may not work as you expect.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 03 October 2025, 08:51
by Meeplelowda
Jellby wrote: ↑03 October 2025, 08:40
Also, there's no one-to-one correspondence between AES and Arena league. Someone in the bronze league could have AES well above 1500, and someone in the elite league could have AES well below 1500[*].
While the latter is definitely true, it's hard for someone to have an AES "well above" 1500 yet not have made it out of bronze. Unless you mean that their AES at their true skill level could be well above their artificially reset AES, in which case I agree.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 03 October 2025, 15:05
by metro
In Ark Nova, if you win season your photo will be on one of cards in game
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 03 October 2025, 16:40
by Ceaseless
FrankJones wrote: ↑02 October 2025, 20:05
h_illes wrote: ↑02 October 2025, 19:59
Basically, winning against stronger opponents will give you more points than winning against weaker opponents, and losing against weaker opponents will make lose more points than losing to strong opponents.
For the most part.
It's important to clarify that in this context, "stronger" and "weaker" means having more or less arena points. That does not necessarily mean the player is stronger or weaker in skill level. At the top of the arena hear the end of a season, it likely does.
But, someone could be the best player on the site and yet had only just reached elite level because of not having played Arena much yet that season. That would be a tough matchup for whoever gets matched with that player, since the player would be highly skilled but have a low number of arena points.
Or at least, that's how I've been told it works. Am I mistaken? Does it simply use the Elo difference and double it? I thought it was based on the difference in arena tokens/points.
That's just the natural headache of a player not properly rated yet. It's short-term, with enough time and games it will sort itself out, but rough all the same. Also one of many reasons larger rating gap games are a pain and are fairly questionable for rated, though for higher rated players this may be an inevitable requirement to get a game sometimes.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 06 October 2025, 12:01
by zimmah
Meeplelowda wrote: ↑27 September 2025, 22:59
Jellby wrote: ↑27 September 2025, 20:08
I guess people play because it's a competitive environment with a goal.
Some people also play Arena even if they don't care about Arena rankings because they say they can't get games going outside of Arena.
Interesting, I never even bothered trying arena because I assumed it would be even HARDER to find a game in arena.
Re: What is the point of the arena?
Posted: 06 October 2025, 17:50
by Meeplelowda
zimmah wrote: ↑06 October 2025, 12:01
Meeplelowda wrote: ↑27 September 2025, 22:59
Jellby wrote: ↑27 September 2025, 20:08
I guess people play because it's a competitive environment with a goal.
Some people also play Arena even if they don't care about Arena rankings because they say they can't get games going outside of Arena.
Interesting, I never even bothered trying arena because I assumed it would be even HARDER to find a game in arena.
It depends on the game. For some games, the people who play it avidly also want to play it competitively, so they play in Arena. For other games, the people who play it avidly don't like the Arena settings, so they avoid Arena. Given that the Arena settings can change from season to season, so can this dynamic.