Niorkvi Question

[apollo1001]

Is there any more explanation behind the staggered collapse?

Consider the example:

_ _ x _
_ X _ _
x _ x x
_ _ x _

Here, the capital X has just been murdered, so the question results do you collapse horizontal or vertically as you will get different boards with each:

_ _ x _
_ _ _ _
_ _ x _

or
_ _ _
_ _ _
x _ x
_ _ _

The need to line these up gets around this issue...

[Babz]

I don't know if it is possible to implement that, but on BGA part the killer advantage should be acknowledge in the Elo reward or loss.

Something like:
inspector wins--> Elo formula should have a factor 1.5 (both way)
Killer wins Elo formula gets a factor 0.66 (both way)

That way Elo would better reflect player ability.

[senatorhung]

I don't know if it is possible to implement that, but on BGA part the killer advantage should be acknowledge in the Elo reward or loss.

Something like:
inspector wins--> Elo formula should have a factor 1.5 (both way)
Killer wins Elo formula gets a factor 0.66 (both way)

That way Elo would better reflect player ability.

i don't think mucking with the ELO would help matters if the underlying game is still weighted so much in favour of the killer.

here is the topic on boardgamegeek:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/140 ... far-easier

here are the suggestions that i made there:

1. 2d win condition for the inspector - exonerate all suspects other than the killer and inspector. (race)

2. have 2 inspectors fixed on the inspector's first turn. both get identified via canvassing, but the killer is not notified if the first one gets killed. (undercover)

3. continue to have the inspector canvas in every direction around the exonerated suspects .. but have the killer only able to canvas in 4 orthogonal directions.

[Pisaac]

I actually found out that it isn't THAT hard being the inspector, but the killer still has a huge advantage.
If you are the inspector, you have to run the stack out of cards, so the person can't disguise himself anymore, and try not to arrest anyone unless you know who it is, but if there are two people it could be, and you think you might lose, you should just go for one of them. Once the killer knows who the inspector is, it is basically game over for the inspector. The killer now knows that the inspector can't disguise himself and now if the inspector tries to bring the killer close, the killer will just do away with the inspector, and...
GAME OVER...

Hope this helped,
Pisaac

[uTop]

I think the option of being a default killer / inspector is for players to rematch in a fair way
Although some players use this function in a wrong way, we can just avoid playing with them
I think this function is okay in general

[Pisaac]

I think the option of being a default killer / inspector is for players to rematch in a fair way
Although some players use this function in a wrong way, we can just avoid playing with them
I think this function is okay in general

Not a bad point... If you are playing with your friend online, and your friend wants to be the inspector or killer and you are okay with that, then perfect! But if you don't know the person and that person obviously just wants elo points, then just don't play with them!

[Shaq Jenkins]

I know my response is really late, but I agree with this suggestion. I'm really tired of clicking on Noir: KVI tables and seeing "First player is the killer." Currently, there are three open tables, and every single one has "First player is the killer" on. I refuse to play with anyone who has this setting on, and I encourage everyone else to refuse as well so the people who do this won't find anyone to play with them.

Also, I noticed that most of the people with high ELO ratings in this game ONLY play as killer, which is extremely unfair. Their high rating is essentially false since they've only mastered how to play as killer, not how to play as both killer and inspector.

I like senatorhung's suggestion that if the inspector exonerates every suspect before the killer kills 16 people, the inspector should win the game. Though I admit that it's more fun to play as the inspector than the killer, the current design of the game heavily favors the killer, and this needs to change.

[Een]

Time has shown that the proportion of games setting 'killer' for the first player has only been growing. So players are indeed using this option in a quest for ELO at the expense of fair play (this is actually quite sad).

Here is the fix we have implemented: now there is only two options, 'random' and 'first player is the inspector'. This way, you can still have a return match with roles switched by coordinating so that the player whose turn it is to be the inspector creates the game and sets the option, but the player creating the game can no more select killer for himself just to maximize his chances to win.

Hope this will make things more fair regarding ELO for Noir.

[kaneaaa]

Ofcourse it's silly. Look at all the "experts" and top players...guess which option they have turned on? They are just farming false ELO and abusing a broken system for a false sense of achievement. Anyone with a rudimentary experience of the game knows the difference between being the inspector and the killer is the difference between doing rocket science and eating an orange. It's just so obvious it doesnt even need to be discussed. The system is broken. End of.


And just on that point, the elo system is vastly flawed as it stands and needs an overhaul.

[senatorhung]

Here is the fix we have implemented: now there is only two options, 'random' and 'first player is the inspector'. This way, you can still have a return match with roles switched by coordinating so that the player whose turn it is to be the inspector creates the game and sets the option, but the player creating the game can no more select killer for himself just to maximize his chances to win.

Hope this will make things more fair regarding ELO for Noir.

thanks for making this change for now !

are you still figuring out with the game designer about how to make the game itself more balanced ? i would be ecstatic to see a 2d win condition for the inspector (all characters other than inspector and killer declared innocent).

has there ever been a situation where the game designer adjusted the offline game rules based on a BGA suggestion made after online play ?? that would be a sweet accomplishment.