No Time Limit shouldn't mean Training Mode

[Jellby]

What I don’t understand is why you defenders of this change are so hung up on the ELO point that only some players have mentioned, when there are SO many other concerns raised by people in this thread.

OK, maybe not just ELO, also some of the statistics. My point is that you can still play NTL in training mode. I totally get it that training mode is not the same, and that many people (myself included) prefer ranked games most of the time. But if not being able to play ranked NTL games makes you abandon BGA in some game, perhaps that means you don't really enjoy playing, but you are there just (or mostly) for some kind of obsession to get a useless internet rank, and in that case it may be healthier to quit. I don't mean it in a derogatory manner, I can also see myself in that position at some point.

[znajder]

If playing without ELO makes them not wish to keep premium, maybe they were not enjoying playing anyway, and in this just makes them realize they could use their money and time for something else.

What I don’t understand is why you defenders of this change are so hung up on the ELO point that only some players have mentioned, when there are SO many other concerns raised by people in this thread.

Windrisen’s comment was in response to a post about the time penalty markers you may get now that you are forced to play time constrained games, and how this new enforced way of playing does not work well for them and is close to a deal breaker for that user.

There was NO mention whatsoever of ELO in Windrisen’s post, nor in the post Windrisen replied to. If you’re soooo keen on defending this change despite it clearly having a real negative impact for many BGA users, how about actually reading their arguments and trying to understand where they are coming from, before trying to counter argue about something complete irrelevant to what they are saying or the point they are making?

Well, your response here doesn't make any logical sense. There is no forcing to play time-constrained games unless you care about Elo. The only way to get into trouble with time penalties is if you care about Elo. Otherwise just play training mode and enjoy yourself.

Congratulations! You immediately showed off your ignorance and proved to exactly do the thing I wrote about, that is NOT actually reading and understanding the points before commenting or arguing against the points people are making here. Well done!

The comments quoted above are about TURNED BASED GAMES, where players expect to be able to leave BGA for a couple of days and still be able to return to their game.

Training mode is a REAL TIME table configuration (here’s a quote from the table setting: “Training mode: no rankings, no time limit per turn, no penalties. Real-time game.”), which will automatically shut down the table if no moves are made within a time frame of 4 hours.

So, if you want to play a TURN BASED GAME which, surprise surprise, many people actually do, your only option now is to play with time constraints. EVEN if you don’t care about the ELO whatsoever.

So again, how about actually reading their arguments and trying to understand where they are coming from, before trying to counter argue about something complete irrelevant to what they are saying or the point they are making?

[Peter D Switzerland]

What I don’t understand is why you defenders of this change are so hung up on the ELO point that only some players have mentioned, when there are SO many other concerns raised by people in this thread.

OK, maybe not just ELO, also some of the statistics. My point is that you can still play NTL in training mode. I totally get it that training mode is not the same, and that many people (myself included) prefer ranked games most of the time. But if not being able to play ranked NTL games makes you abandon BGA in some game, perhaps that means you don't really enjoy playing, but you are there just (or mostly) for some kind of obsession to get a useless internet rank, and in that case it may be healthier to quit. I don't mean it in a derogatory manner, I can also see myself in that position at some point.

Amazing. You seem to be projecting all sorts of unpleasantness onto people who disagree with you, making assumptions about their motivations, and disregarding their explicit statements and concerns. Yes, one can play NTL in training mode, but we've given multiple reasons why that is (sometimes) unsatisfactory. Assuming that we aren't enjoying playing (and chatting as we do so) for playing's sake is a huge step, contradicting lots of the actual comments many members have made about how their friendship groups play games together.

The "fix" you are defending has raised a lot of problems and concerns. It's more effective to try and understand those concerns, rather than insulting or denigrating those who happen to use the site differently from your assumption about how it should be used.

[znajder]

What I don’t understand is why you defenders of this change are so hung up on the ELO point that only some players have mentioned, when there are SO many other concerns raised by people in this thread.

OK, maybe not just ELO, also some of the statistics. My point is that you can still play NTL in training mode. I totally get it that training mode is not the same, and that many people (myself included) prefer ranked games most of the time. But if not being able to play ranked NTL games makes you abandon BGA in some game, perhaps that means you don't really enjoy playing, but you are there just (or mostly) for some kind of obsession to get a useless internet rank, and in that case it may be healthier to quit. I don't mean it in a derogatory manner, I can also see myself in that position at some point.

If you’ve actually read this thread, you would know that what people bring up as their comcerns goes way beyond statistics (including ELO), and there are A LOT of people who are mainly concerned with the implications this has on Turn Based Games, where there is no Training Mode. Training mode is a Real Time only mode, and the table shuts down after 4 hours of inactivity. So people are now forced to play time constrained games, where players may accumulate time penalties which may negatively impact them in other situations (see this thread for more on that: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28412)

I think a core issue of this thread is that the BGA change’s effects on both real time and turn based games are now being discussed in this same thread, and although related neither the implications nor the solutions are the same on turn based compared to real time.

This is why i created a separate thread, in an attempt to highlight the real impact this change is having on players who use the turned based tables: Bring back Turn Based "No Time Limit + Friends Only" https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28412

[dschingis27]

I find it funny how you pretend that the 4 hours problem is the main topic of the thread.

“Training mode: no rankings, no time limit per turn, no penalties. Real-time game.”

I am glad that I can brighten your days. It is just a bug you can circumvent. When you go to the turn-based lobby and start a training game from there, you do not have a 4-hour limit but 40 or 50 days (even though the text states it is a "Real-time game").
It doesn't matter if you use the old interface from the "Play now" link or the new game lobby. Whenever you choose "Real-Time" first and then choose training mode, you will get the 4 hours limit. Whenever you choose "Turn-Based" first and then switch to training mode, you have the 40 days (or 50 days) limit and you can start several such turn-based training games at the same time. Hopefully this confusion gets fixed in the near future.

Happy gaming.

[cigma]

When you go to the turn-based lobby and start a training game from there, you do not have a 4-hour limit but 40 or 50 days (even though the text states it is a "Real-time game").
It doesn't matter if you use the old interface from the "Play now" link or the new game lobby. Whenever you choose "Real-Time" first and then choose training mode, you will get the 4 hours limit. Whenever you choose "Turn-Based" first and then switch to training mode, you have the 40 days (or 50 days) limit and you can start several such turn-based training games at the same time.

I don't know if it works like dschingis27 describes it, but if yes, it is VERY confusing.

My experience with training mode is that I got stuck (if not 50 % of the game was played), like others have reported here: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=65996
Therefore I don't consider training mode as a substitute for the now missing no time limit games.

[Nullzone]

Chiming in here as a premium subscriber of almost three years to also say: I will be canceling my subscription unless this is reversed, training mode is not a sufficient substitute due to the 4 hour limit on real time tables and the prompts for the player(s) who are out of time are intrusive and sometimes interfere with other game prompts.

[RodimusPrime]

• For those who want to still get/lose ELO points, you cannot do it without time limit BUT a very good alternative is to play with the slowest speed (1 move every 2 days), and even with that, if some player is over allotted time, you can ignore this and do not expel him/her.

• It sounds like many users want to have both NTL (no time limit) and ELO on their turn-based tables.
• It also sounds like BGA wants fewer support issues due to un-kickable players. This was the reason behind the change.
• AFAICT, the root cause is the kick-ability implications, not the absence of a time limit itself. Correct?

So why don't you allow ALL players at NTL tables to be able to expel any player at any time? This is a totally reasonable power for everyone at a friends table to have.

[slimy_asparagus]

I usually had "no time limit" when it was only friends. It takes away the stress whilst you still get the ELO changes.

The only time a game timed out was when one of those friends was suffering from long COVID. So that's fair enough in my book.

I only make someone a friend on BGA if I really trust them.

What I would suggest is that there should be a very long time frame option which is restricted to friends only. So for all practical purposes it is infinite but it still has a limit within the standard framework.

[Jellby]

So why don't you allow ALL players at NTL tables to be able to expel any player at any time? This is a totally reasonable power for everyone at a friends table to have.

Yep, I agree: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 01#p129401