ELO on luck based games

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tbhp
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Joined: 16 April 2025, 00:35

Re: ELO on luck based games

Post by tbhp »

One interesting thing about Elo is that the whole win probability thing doesn't accurately apply to any one individual player. Every player will have their own distribution of how well they do against each rank of opponent.

For example, a player may consistently stay at 500 Elo when they play against other 500 Elo opponents, because they win half of their games against them. But if that same player were to play for example against 200 Elo players, it's possible that their Elo would go well under 500, because they don't do as well against lower rated opponents as their Elo would suggest.

Conversely, someone may be best at securing wins against lower rated opponents, and thus reach 500 Elo while playing against those, but in the event where they were to face other 500 Elo players, they may drop lower because they don't do as well against top players.

This is interesting because it puts to light that Elo is not a fixed number, it's relative to many things and its number can vary depending on how you look at it and what sorts of opponents you put a player against.

The same phenomenon can be seen in sports. There are teams that are known for wavering against lower ranked teams, but will usually show up when playing against the big teams. And conversely, teams that do very well against smaller teams, but that fail surprisingly often when put up against higher ranked teams.
FrankJones
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Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: ELO on luck based games

Post by FrankJones »

I reached 500 in Wingspan and 535 in TFM by limiting my opponents to 300 or higher. (perhaps a lot of lucky streaks in there?).

Then, to get games started faster, I opened some of the games to 200+ Elo, and I took some heavy losses against players in the 200-300 range.

I don't think I play worse against them. I do believe that the lower the Elo, the higher likelihood that player's Elo is temporarily lower than the player's actual skill.

In one of my best games, I took a tough loss against a 300-ish Elo when I was at 500+. But, that player had a win rate of 15 wins in 17 games and was clearly an expert-level player still ascending. Tough situation, but unavoidable and relatively rare.
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tbhp
Posts: 717
Joined: 16 April 2025, 00:35

Re: ELO on luck based games

Post by tbhp »

FrankJones wrote: 23 June 2026, 18:18 I reached 500 in Wingspan and 535 in TFM by limiting my opponents to 300 or higher. (perhaps a lot of lucky streaks in there?).

Then, to get games started faster, I opened some of the games to 200+ Elo, and I took some heavy losses against players in the 200-300 range.

I don't think I play worse against them. I do believe that the lower the Elo, the higher likelihood that player's Elo is temporarily lower than the player's actual skill.

In one of my best games, I took a tough loss against a 300-ish Elo when I was at 500+. But, that player had a win rate of 15 wins in 17 games and was clearly an expert-level player still ascending. Tough situation, but unavoidable and relatively rare.
It certainly helps to play against strong opponents if you think you can match up. Not only do your wins give more points, you also don't have to worry about losing big if you lose. So you climb faster and this is exacerbated if you also run into some kind of win streak against those strong opponents.

There's the concentration aspect as well. In some types of games not giving your best can make lower rated opponents significantly more likely to beat you. There's players who when playing very important games are able to show up but when facing weaker opponents, seem to slack a bit and as a result take a few losses here and there that they shouldn't have let slip by.
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BarnardsStar
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Joined: 02 January 2021, 02:41

Re: ELO on luck based games

Post by BarnardsStar »

Meeplelowda wrote: 23 June 2026, 06:23
That’s awesome, thanks for sharing!

Though now I’m gonna have that song my head for a week…
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