Takenoko - Second edition FAQ

[Black Plague]

You asked - so I'm sharing....while the artwork will take some getting used to.....the change in rules of 'immediate placement' is horse-crap. This is a major change to the game and 'official' or not - this is not the game we all love. Please make this an option (so that I can never chose it )

Thanks in advance,

-=dave

P.S. And while I do see it as an option - To automatically change all existing Tournaments to the BETA 2 rules isn't too nice.

[Meeplelowda]

For me, it seems that the most dramatic change is the need to have the gardener at the right plot to get the objective. At least in 2p games, the game revolves strongly on good positioning of gardener and panda (try to place them good for you but bad for opponent). Now the gardener objectives are harder to solve, and with ability to place upgrades on plots with grown bamboo, there is even more counterplay to the gardener objectives.

I agree that this is a striking difference. I've only played 2p so far, but this was a source of MUCH frustration because the gardener would be ideally placed for my next turn, then be moved away by my opponent, and moving it back would grow the bamboo to the wrong height.

Another interesting nuance is that the freer placement of the improvements allows for tactical blocking of certain bamboo if it seems your opponent is going for it.

[dschingis27]

If this game had needed one rule, then it would be the possibility to discard objective cards and get new ones. Or allow having more than 5. The fun of the game shines best when you can play for multiple objectives at the same time. On the other hand, you can even get quite stuck with the objectives in your hand...

[pinkyandthebrain]

I agree with the poster who mentioned how panda objectives have become even more favourable as they are so much easier to fulfil than orchestrating that the gardener be in the correct place when it comes to your turn, or to irrigating/improving a plot - esp when that plot may suddenly turn into a type different to your objective. I wonder if in considering balance there should be a rule on the number of each type of objective you can have in hand and complete to finish the game, say 2 or 3 of EACH type plot/gardener/panda must be fulfilled (dependent on number of players), rather than 5 or 6 panda objectives?

[Doddsie]

New rules "If there are no more improvement, you can move an improvement already placed."

How do you do this? I played a game and there were no more 'rake' improvements but couldn't seem to move an improvement that was already on the board.

[metropol]

I do not like these new rules AT ALL! I've tried it once, it completely ruins the game, and if in the future only the 2nd version should become available, I am done playing Takenoko.
Really worth the downvote.

[Meeplelowda]

I do not like these new rules AT ALL! I've tried it once, it completely ruins the game, and if in the future only the 2nd version should become available, I am done playing Takenoko.
Really worth the downvote.

I am often fascinated by what gets someone to make their first post.

If I had never played Takenoko before and only knew these rules, I'd still think it is a fun game. As others have mentioned, there are some new rules that thematically make more sense. Sure, I'm used to the other rules, but I try to objectively separate familiarity from superiority whenever a new edition/expansion of a game comes out.

[sourisdudesert]

New rules "If there are no more improvement, you can move an improvement already placed."

How do you do this? I played a game and there were no more 'rake' improvements but couldn't seem to move an improvement that was already on the board.

You can move an improvement if -none- of them are available.

[Deuce Heart]

I am a long-time Takenoko fan and played my first game with the new rules tonight, and... honestly? I thought the changes were mostly bad. Of course, I need to play it more to be sure, but I felt the downsides far outweighed any upsides, and dramatically change the nature of the game from a light, quick, and fun crowd-pleaser to one that imposes frustrating limitations that drag the game out.

First of all, BGA needs to put the updated rules on the game page; when I tried to collect my first irrigation tile and realized I had to place it immediately, I went looking for an explanation and could not find it. I didn't encounter this FAQ until I was nearly finished with the game.

Okay, the upsides: I do think the cleaner, clearer design is an improvement. And rain growing bamboo on non-irrigated tiles seems interesting. That's about it, though. The downsides for me are basically all the other changes.

Requiring the gardener to be on the tile in order to complete the objective means those objectives immediately become much harder to achieve, and far easier for opponents to sabotage. It also draws out the playing time because it's harder to achieve those goals.

Immediate placement of the improvements and irrigation are also frustrating. They eliminate the late-game plot goal strategy, which was a good way to counter the panda rush. They also actually make it harder to complete the tile goals, it seems to me. Furthermore, being able to place improvements onto tiles that already have bamboo again only seems to serve to extend the game, because it makes finishing gardener goals (already made more difficult by the requirement to have the gardener on the tile) even more problematical.

I just finished my first 3-player game with the new rules and it took 43 MINUTES! That is insanity. I'm sure the time will go down as people understand the new rules, but that's waaaaay too long for a game of Takenoko. I've knocked out 4-player games on BGA in 15 or 20 minutes, and they were fun and satisfying experiences.

I'll try the new rules a time or two more now that I understand them, but I cannot see myself using them regularly. The original rule set is so much smoother and allows much greater strategic flexibility. Glad I still have my first edition set so I can ignore the new rules IRL as long as I want.

[JMDurron]

I am a long-time Takenoko fan and played my first game with the new rules tonight, and... honestly? I thought the changes were mostly bad. Of course, I need to play it more to be sure, but I felt the downsides far outweighed any upsides, and dramatically change the nature of the game from a light, quick, and fun crowd-pleaser to one that imposes frustrating limitations that drag the game out.

First of all, BGA needs to put the updated rules on the game page; when I tried to collect my first irrigation tile and realized I had to place it immediately, I went looking for an explanation and could not find it. I didn't encounter this FAQ until I was nearly finished with the game.

Okay, the upsides: I do think the cleaner, clearer design is an improvement. And rain growing bamboo on non-irrigated tiles seems interesting. That's about it, though. The downsides for me are basically all the other changes.

Requiring the gardener to be on the tile in order to complete the objective means those objectives immediately become much harder to achieve, and far easier for opponents to sabotage. It also draws out the playing time because it's harder to achieve those goals.

Immediate placement of the improvements and irrigation are also frustrating. They eliminate the late-game plot goal strategy, which was a good way to counter the panda rush. They also actually make it harder to complete the tile goals, it seems to me. Furthermore, being able to place improvements onto tiles that already have bamboo again only seems to serve to extend the game, because it makes finishing gardener goals (already made more difficult by the requirement to have the gardener on the tile) even more problematical.

I just finished my first 3-player game with the new rules and it took 43 MINUTES! That is insanity. I'm sure the time will go down as people understand the new rules, but that's waaaaay too long for a game of Takenoko. I've knocked out 4-player games on BGA in 15 or 20 minutes, and they were fun and satisfying experiences.

I'll try the new rules a time or two more now that I understand them, but I cannot see myself using them regularly. The original rule set is so much smoother and allows much greater strategic flexibility. Glad I still have my first edition set so I can ignore the new rules IRL as long as I want.

Completely agree. My wife and I have enjoyed playing the game together on BGA and with our son IRL for months now, and we've seriously considered stopping playing it entirely with the new rules changes from this "2nd Edition." Seeing that there is apparently a way to reset to the 1st edition rules for our next game helps significantly, though. I'm glad I read this FAQ/thread for that reason.