Board Game Arena

Ranior wrote: ↑07 June 2021, 13:43

Quite a hefty amount of whataboutism there. The more people that mess with the system, then the more likely it will be discounted.

I don't really understand why you suggest that you don't care too much for your ELO and then go and create a separate account solely for the purpose to protect your ELO. It's sounds more like an internal justification you've used to then go ahead and create accounts. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The ELO system largely reflects the percentage chance of a win, so while you maybe extremely likely to win against a 200ELO player, it's not guaranteed and that is reflected in the ELO calculation. A win will net you very few points (if any) and a loss will be a big one. I would think that most players would seek to not play lower rated players in an attempt to avoid this possibility, especially if there are so many nefarious accounts like you mention.

A genuine example of 3 players being beaten all in the same game by (ELO < 200): If 1 was considered impossible, what does 3 in the same game make? Should I buy a lottery ticket?
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=171236520

First off, I never claimed there were many nefarious accounts. Smurfing is relatively infrequent, especially in Terra Mystica. As for the OP of this thread, and based on my other posts, I explain why I think there probably is a lot more smurfing in other games, like 7 Wonders.

Regardless of what the elo system is supposed to achieve, it fails in quite a few ways. Yes, you are correct that you lose a lot more to a low rated player. But in a 2p environment of Terra Mystica, I would argue the odds are not at all correctly weighed. I am positive that I could achieve a higher elo by grinding 2p Terra Mystica games and carefully pruning my opponents. The reason I'm pretty confident of this is the simple fact that 2p specialists have done this in the past and have and do get to the top of the elo ratings in Terra Mystica via that method. Plus I think in most games you tend to see players with lower player count rise to the top, and this is because while the elo system is attempting to handle different player counts well (and it does fairly well) there still is an edge for those focusing on lower player count of the spectrum.

Also, to be clear, I don't think it is impossible for lower rated players to beat higher rated players. I am saying that I'm fairly confident if I pruned my opponents and played 2p Terra Mystica that I could fairly easily improve my elo. Fortunately there aren't many players that care that much to bother doing it, but the few who do often are near the top of the Terra Mystica rankings. I'm much less likely to be able to get the same rating by playing 4p games against my peers.

We need to specifically talk about smurfing.
I don't understand why there is so much talk about 2player matches versus 4player in with regards to ELO gain. I can't see the relevance.
It just sounds like your making a justification to yourself for making smurf account because 'other people try and bend the system' in different ways, so it's OK if make a smurf account.
That justification doesn't hold water.

"Elo" in BGA is broken. First, it's not Elo, it's a mockup which is intended to make newbies feel good (hence no going lower when under 100). Second, one Elo score is not meant to be used for multiple different games (which different player counts are). Third, even without the mentioned problems, Elo does not match the actual win probabilities, even in chess. So if something is already broken, you can't break it. So I don't care whether someone has 1 or 2 or 100 accounts.

Tulivuori wrote: ↑07 June 2021, 22:07 So if something is already broken, you can't break it. So I don't care whether someone has 1 or 2 or 100 accounts.

Great, if you don't care then just have 1. Because other people might care.

RicardoRix wrote: ↑07 June 2021, 22:09

Tulivuori wrote: ↑07 June 2021, 22:07 So if something is already broken, you can't break it. So I don't care whether someone has 1 or 2 or 100 accounts.

Great, if you don't care then just have 1. Because other people might care.

I have.

I wonder what Papa Smuf and Smurfette might think about all this.

Hmmmm...