Board Game Arena

The Wood Duck is not particularly strong, at least not strong enough to warrant much consideration as being "powerful". I almost never face it when I play against players in the 300-500 ELO range and I find it hard to play with the 2 fruit and seed cost. # food is already alot for a low point bird and its ability only nets 1 card. It's good, but its tempered by its food cost.

TLDR: The Wood Duck is a completely fair bird and is often not worth the cost to play it.

> You compare a game in which a player gets a Raven and Killdeer but doesn't have the best strategy so (s)he loses, to a game where you get a Raven and a decent strategy, and win. For real?

I don't understand what you're referring two. I gave two examples of games which I won, where I did NOT get any raven or gull/killdeer during the whole game, in either of these games. In both of those games, the other player got a raven and played it as their second bird of the game, in round one. In the first game, the other player also played a killdeer shortly after playing the raven. In neither game did I have any raven or gull/killdeer.

So yes, for real, I was giving the most recent examples I had at the time I saw this post, of games in which the player without the powerful birds beat the player with the powerful birds. I experience this fairly often, so it is not unusual that at the time I read this post, I had a couple of recent examples I could easily find.

"Doesn't have the best strategy" is of course my point: Playing better is a stronger factor in determining who wins the game, than who got more powerful birds.

There's still plenty of luck aside from those factors, of course - sometimes you have to spend several turns drawing because you keep not getting good birds or birds that work well together or fit your goals, or your starting hand of 5 is all birds that are hard to play. Other times you luck out with birds that fit your goals, or that form a good engine together, or fit the shared bonus goals, or all of the above. These luck factors happen regardless of whether any of the 4 "powerful birds" are drawn by anyone.

Dismissing it as "not the best strategy" is dismissing the whole point I'm making without even bothering to address it. My point is that there are a lot of factors, including skill & strategy, and luck in several ways, in this game, and the 4 "powerful birds" don't dominate those factors.

Cos- wrote: ↑12 July 2023, 15:05

I miswrote and/or misread your 2nd. example; sorry.
I watched it now.

So I rephrase: in both examples given (2nd. also), the enemy played (sorry for being honest) NOT WELL.
So a decent player can easily win against anyone who plays Ravens/Killdeer/Franklin's Gull (as well as any other bird), if that player plays them... not 1 of the best 5 ways.

Perhaps you were luckier to find such situations and players. Most of the people around, aren't. So congrats for that.

I understood your point of view perfectly, I simply disagree.
I think I refer to things from a same-level point of view: I consider all players similarly decent (or at least decent enough to not build a Raven in the Forest and to not build Killdeer in the Water), so I am mostly refering to the luck part of the game: the Ravens and the other 2 OverPowered birds have NOTHING to do in competitions!

As someone said it, Ravens are no-brainers if the player getting them doesn't waste them, like in the 2 examples you threw.

Same as Rayquaza, same as Aegislash, Mewtwo and many more, in Pokémon.

And cases where people win against (mildly decent) Ravens (+/- Killdeer/Franklin's Gull) are in no way "a lot" ("very often") and those birds are certainly determiners of the outcome (if they are not played like in the 2 examples you gave).

TryWhite wrote: ↑09 July 2023, 09:41 The Wood Duck is not particularly strong, at least not strong enough to warrant much consideration as being "powerful". I almost never face it when I play against players in the 300-500 ELO range and I find it hard to play with the 2 fruit and seed cost. # food is already alot for a low point bird and its ability only nets 1 card. It's good, but its tempered by its food cost.

TLDR: The Wood Duck is a completely fair bird and is often not worth the cost to play it.

Early Wood Duck, if played correctly, is a nearly guaranteed winner. I would say it wins over 90% if you have it in your starting hand (often by large margin too).
The reason you ‘almost never’ face it is because of a sheer number of cards in the deck, certainly not because strong players refuse to play it (also many 3xx players are not exactly strong…) Also if you get it after round 1 it may be too late and not worth playing it anymore.
Check out some of the top player’s games with Wood Duck to learn how to play it as you clearly underestimate its strength.

Ze Monstah wrote: ↑29 March 2023, 04:42 Are you really saying that the Wood Duck's unique ability of drawing cards in the Forest, when played there in the first 2 rounds, is that overpowered?

I think I am missing something, because I find it way too expensive (for just 4 points), and the fact it can be built in the Forest, perhaps completely bypassing Wetland Play, is interesting... but I have rarely seen people win on a regular basis with this strategy.

I might be wrong, but I find the early plays of Crows and the Chipping Sparrow/the 0-points grain-giving Towhee/the 1-point worm-giving Forest bird/the 0-points 5-egged moving bird, waaaay more overpowered than that expensive colourful Duck.

Of course, each with their opinion, but I find its ban extremely unnecessary.

Wood duck is the most powerfull card after killdeer, gull and ravens, since they took it out from arena, wood duck goes number 1

plopzito wrote: ↑16 July 2023, 19:33

Ze Monstah wrote: ↑29 March 2023, 04:42 Are you really saying that the Wood Duck's unique ability of drawing cards in the Forest, when played there in the first 2 rounds, is that overpowered?

I think I am missing something, because I find it way too expensive (for just 4 points), and the fact it can be built in the Forest, perhaps completely bypassing Wetland Play, is interesting... but I have rarely seen people win on a regular basis with this strategy.

I might be wrong, but I find the early plays of Crows and the Chipping Sparrow/the 0-points grain-giving Towhee/the 1-point worm-giving Forest bird/the 0-points 5-egged moving bird, waaaay more overpowered than that expensive colourful Duck.

Of course, each with their opinion, but I find its ban extremely unnecessary.

Wood duck is the most powerfull card after killdeer, gull and ravens, since they took it out from arena, wood duck goes number 1

Thanks for letting me know about your opinion, which (like mine) is not an Universal truth.

I simply disagree.

I generally consider the Crows, the best, after the 4 Strongest Ones, but that's just my opinion.

The game designer does not say anything at all about the ravens and killdeer and franklin's gull being a problem in the rules. She's actually repeatedly complained about people insisting the game needs house rules. I don't know why this myth keeps getting repeated.

All four birds give you a net gain of one resource just like many other birds. It's absurd to ban them, especially the killdeer and franklin's gull.

When you have the wood duck in your starting hand it is a 90% chance of victory if you play it correctly as someone said above.

When I see this bird played by someone else in the first round I sigh buuut it’s still possible to win just REALLY REALLY hard

However I would not want it to be removed, it’s amazing when it’s me having it! Also some players make the mistake to play it later in the game when it has lost if value.

I agree the Wood Duck should be banned in competitive. It is significantly stronger than any of the others mentioned here. It’s more or less a guaranteed 100+ point game.

I believe I’ve hit 100+ on my past 15 or so Wood Duck games where I had it in my opening hand, or even took it from the tray on my first turn. It’s just too strong.

Imo Wood Duck is a decent amount more consistent than Franklin’s Gull or Killdeer, even if it doesn’t have as explosive of games.

CroatianFish wrote: ↑13 July 2023, 17:23

TryWhite wrote: ↑09 July 2023, 09:41 The Wood Duck is not particularly strong, at least not strong enough to warrant much consideration as being "powerful". I almost never face it when I play against players in the 300-500 ELO range and I find it hard to play with the 2 fruit and seed cost. # food is already alot for a low point bird and its ability only nets 1 card. It's good, but its tempered by its food cost.

TLDR: The Wood Duck is a completely fair bird and is often not worth the cost to play it.

Early Wood Duck, if played correctly, is a nearly guaranteed winner. I would say it wins over 90% if you have it in your starting hand (often by large margin too).
The reason you ‘almost never’ face it is because of a sheer number of cards in the deck, certainly not because strong players refuse to play it (also many 3xx players are not exactly strong…) Also if you get it after round 1 it may be too late and not worth playing it anymore.
Check out some of the top player’s games with Wood Duck to learn how to play it as you clearly underestimate its strength.

Making up statistics doesn't make them true. And it makes you look bad to say that I don't know how to play it. I have WORLD ELO #1 trophy for Wingspan. If I can reach World #1 player in Wingspan I'm pretty sure I know if the Wood Duck is strong or not. Maybe you should learn how to play the other birds better so you don't lose 90% of the time to the Wood Duck?