Red Thumbs Update

[Exotic Dreams]

I have been blocking players who are kicking other players out of games given an oppertunity to do so to gain extra freebie points.

I have two players blocked currently who played this way to gain extra points.

BGA webpage went down during one of my gamed and that player managed to get back into the game before I did and kicked me out giving me a penalty. Real classy...Quick get back in to the game first an d kick the other player out to gain extra points.. Anyhow....

Another player took advantage of that my internet connection dropped for a couple of minutes in order to kick me out of a game instead of switching the game to turn based or abandoning the game to gain extra points at my expense.

[Kayvon]

I have been blocking players who are kicking other players out of games

You're free to red thumb someone for any reason or no reason at all. It's totally up to you. The only way for them to kick you is if you go over your allotted time repeatedly. The system allows you several chances to remedy before allowing them to kick you out of the game.

BGA policy entitles you to use every last second of your allotted time without other players giving you a hard time. At the same time, other players are entitled to expect you to act within the time you committed to. Fortunately, BGA offers a wide variety of game speeds. I like to vary the speed depending on how relaxed I want my experience to be.

[Exotic Dreams]

"The only way for them to kick you is if you go over your allotted time repeatedly. The system allows you several chances to remedy before allowing them to kick you out of the game. "

Wrong. In that game that I mentioned , before my internet connection dropped, I was playing my turns in a timely fashion and was not repeatedly late.
I was late to play one turn because my internet connection happened to drop during my turn, so I was obviously delayed in finishing my turn in a timely fashion.
I did not have several chances. I had no chances to remedy this situation because during the time that my internet connection went down, I couldn't play at all.
Sea salt and paper game. You can check my game logs if you don't believe me.

I have no idea why you'd bring up game speed in this ...I was not playing slowly. I couldn't play during the time my internet connection was down.
The other player did give me a hard time. By giving me a penalty during a time I couldn't play. It clearly says on the screen when a player loses internet connection . This is when the other player has the option to abandon game or switch to turn based knowing the other player who lost internet connection cannot play during that time.

[nik592]

Your internet connection is yours to manage in terms of how it affects your play. If dropouts only happen every once in a while, well, that shouldn't be such a big deal. If it happens frequently, then you should choose a different play speed (probably turn-based).

I suspect the real reason internet dropouts aren't considered in terms of waiving penalties is that they're impossible for anyone at BGA to verify, and if that was allowed as a reason to negate penalties, that'd be all we'd ever see. So the above policy applies. It's bad luck for you, but your opponent is within their rights to kick you after that point (you are also within your rights to red thumb them for that or any other reason).

[Exotic Dreams]

Your internet connection is yours to manage in terms of how it affects your play. If dropouts only happen every once in a while, well, that shouldn't be such a big deal. If it happens frequently, then you should choose a different play speed (probably turn-based).

I suspect the real reason internet dropouts aren't considered in terms of waiving penalties is that they're impossible for anyone at BGA to verify, and if that was allowed as a reason to negate penalties, that'd be all we'd ever see. So the above policy applies. It's bad luck for you, but your opponent is within their rights to kick you after that point (you are also within your rights to red thumb them for that or any other reason).

As long as the bill is paid, individuals don't have control over internet connection. I did call my internet service provider to find out why my internet connection went down briefly. Although I don't think the internet service provider will do much about losing internet connection for a couple of minutes.

BGA seems to do just fine with being able to tell when players are online or offline.

[Jellby]

BGA seems to do just fine with being able to tell when players are online or offline.

No, it doesn't. I've seen many time "offline" players making moves and writing in chat.

Also, it looks like pulling the network cable would give you infinite thinking time according to your arguments.

[nik592]

As long as the bill is paid, individuals don't have control over internet connection.

It didn't say it was yours to control, I said it was yours to manage in terms of how it affects your play. If you happen to have a flaky internet connection that drops out frequently, don't attempt real-time games. If your connection is generally stable, then you're probably fine, though you may have to wear the odd inconvenience of being dropped and getting a penalty. Other people are inconvenienced by a dropout on their internet too - maybe it killed a download you were waiting on, or maybe you missed the last seconds of an online auction. Sometimes annoying things happen in your life.

Although I don't think the internet service provider will do much about losing internet connection for a couple of minutes.

Correct. Most internet providers will probably have some kind of clause in their terms of service indicating that intermittent faults may happen and it's not their responsibility. You wear the impact of those faults - in this case, it includes a minor dip on your reputation on BGA, which is easily recovered if your connection is mostly fine.

Also, it looks like pulling the network cable would give you infinite thinking time according to your arguments.

Also, this. When BGA reports players online, it's when they have the website open and connected to the internet (more or less, not necessarily reliable as Jellby says). As Jellby also points out, people can easily abuse that kind of system, or even more deceptively, take a screenshot of the game state, then close my browser. Now I'm offline! Oh, I can't possibly get back on to make my move for at least a few minutes while I inspect the board state and figure out my absolute best move...

[Exotic Dreams]

Yes and also other players can easily abandon games or switch to turn based when other player( s) are unable to play anymore either due to the BGA webpage crashing or other factors beyond a player's control.

Also, I have a better solution. Start giving players penalties who are seeking opportunities to grab extra points by kicking other players who are unable to play. These players could play more fairly and get points by winning games.

Anyhow... My point of this is this is a reason that I want red thumbs to stay in the arena.

[Cos-]

Yes and also other players can easily abandon games or switch to turn based when other player( s) are unable to play anymore either due to the BGA webpage crashing or other factors beyond a player's control.

If someone chose to play a game at a certain speed, it can mean that they wanted the game to take no more than the time usually taken at that speed. You can't fault them for not wanting to change to turn based if they didn't want to play turn based in the first place. And you can't fault them for not abandoning the game - they don't want a penalty for themselves, and they may be upset that they wasted time going partway through a game and now their opponent seems to be gone or stretching it out. Expelling the opponent is completely justified.

Also, I have a better solution. Start giving players penalties who are seeking opportunities to grab extra points by kicking other players who are unable to play. These players could play more fairly and get points by winning games.

That is neither better, nor a solution at all. You assume if someone expels you it's their tactic to gain points, but that's what's in your head, not theirs. It's much more likely that they picked a game speed based on the pace they want to play at, and don't want to put up with waiting extra or they would've chosen a slower game. When they created or joined the game, they would not have expected anyone else to run out of time, so they couldn't have been planning to expel other players.

[nik592]

Yes and also other players can easily abandon games or switch to turn based when other player( s) are unable to play anymore either due to the BGA webpage crashing or other factors beyond a player's control.

If a player's opponent disappears from a game, how are they to differentiate between someone who didn't like the way the game was going and rage quit, vs. someone who got distracted and forgot they were playing an online game, vs. someone whose internet dropped out, etc. And while you might say the first should be booted and the third should not, what about the second? Is being distracted and forgetting what you were doing reason enough to boot? I've been distracted by my kids before and got booted from a game - others mention being distracted by a phone call or the doorbell. My opponent didn't know my reasons and even if I happen to think they are justified, they may not, and are within their rights to boot me. I learned not play real-time games when my kids are underfoot.

So if they choose to boot their opponent, but their reasons were genuine, well, it's probably an occasional occurrence, and they'll be able to gain their rep back easily. On the other hand, if they choose not to boot their opponent, who is a person who just rage quits when they don't like the outcome, now that person can go and do that again to someone else. Until they hit enough opponents who actually boot them. You can run by whatever standards you want - if you want to always give your opponent a chance, go ahead. But others get to choose how they operate too. And if you go over time, you can't expect someone to follow your standards.

As an aside, I personally give someone over time a fair amount of grace - a couple of days into the red for turn-based, and a good 5 minutes into the red for real-time (which I only play really occasionally). It's a pretty rare day when I boot someone from a game, as my personal stance is I'd rather play games than have to start over. But I respect the rights of other players to treat their opponents differently.