Board Game Arena

FrankJones wrote: ↑17 February 2025, 14:09

Solarman9 wrote: ↑17 February 2025, 01:44

I'm sorry, a little bit confused. Are you mad because you won, but the victory wasn't enough because you didn't get more imaginary points then someone else?

I think that's what the OP is saying. People like to receive the points they earned. What makes you consider the points and less real or more imaginary than any other ranking system? Points in any system are a non-tangible thing. Does that mean people shouldn't care? I would think there's a sense of prestige and personal accomplishment being among the leaderboards on what might be the only site that rigorously keeps statistic for popular games.

I play to win. I don't play for second ever. Most of you do because you want your precious points that just feed some weird ego thing. People attack second place to make themselves second place. I have seen several games where second place was attacked instead of first and if they had attacked first, they would have won. You may find personal accomplishment being on a leader board. You may. Some of us just play for fun. In real life would you get mad if someone playing had to leave with 1 round left to go pick up his spouse who had a flat tire? No. Well, you shouldn't. But more people need to treat this as "would i do that in the real world and face to face " type scenarios. Would i waste my friend's time by discarding 1 card then passing then discarding one card and passing. Maybe you would. I play arena because it is an easier que and people generally tend to play better making it more challenging. I don't need your points. If i did, I could have been season leader in other games if i just stayed at a set points and played non arena. There's no challenge there, but then again, my ego doesn't need imaginary points to make me feel good. Sorry that you do.

Solarman9 wrote: ↑17 February 2025, 19:55

I play to win. I don't play for second ever. Most of you do because you want your precious points that just feed some weird ego thing. People attack second place to make themselves second place. I have seen several games where second place was attacked instead of first and if they had attacked first, they would have won. You may find personal accomplishment being on a leader board. You may. Some of us just play for fun. In real life would you get mad if someone playing had to leave with 1 round left to go pick up his spouse who had a flat tire? No. Well, you shouldn't. But more people need to treat this as "would i do that in the real world and face to face " type scenarios. Would i waste my friend's time by discarding 1 card then passing then discarding one card and passing. Maybe you would. I play arena because it is an easier que and people generally tend to play better making it more challenging. I don't need your points. If i did, I could have been season leader in other games if i just stayed at a set points and played non arena. There's no challenge there, but then again, my ego doesn't need imaginary points to make me feel good. Sorry that you do.

Hey, relax! You seem confused. Why are you writing this rant toward me? I was not the original poster in this thread. I am not the person who said any of the things you are attacking.

In fact, I agree with (most of) what you're saying. I play to win. Playing for second place is asinine.

Although, I am not sure why you feel the need to denigrate the notion of ELO ranking points as "imaginary". It's completely unnecessary with regard to your overall point. All "points" and "ratings" are "imaginary", in the sense they are not tangible things. So what? Is there some system in which rating points are non-imaginary? Can we play a game in a system somewhere in which we get a physical token representing each point and keep them in a drawer somewhere?

Also, in your post, you began with "I play to win", then said, "some of us just play for fun", implying that you are one of those people. SO, do you play to win, or play for fun? Or both, since winning is fun?

FrankJones wrote: ↑17 February 2025, 23:28

Solarman9 wrote: ↑17 February 2025, 19:55

I play to win. I don't play for second ever. Most of you do because you want your precious points that just feed some weird ego thing. People attack second place to make themselves second place. I have seen several games where second place was attacked instead of first and if they had attacked first, they would have won. You may find personal accomplishment being on a leader board. You may. Some of us just play for fun. In real life would you get mad if someone playing had to leave with 1 round left to go pick up his spouse who had a flat tire? No. Well, you shouldn't. But more people need to treat this as "would i do that in the real world and face to face " type scenarios. Would i waste my friend's time by discarding 1 card then passing then discarding one card and passing. Maybe you would. I play arena because it is an easier que and people generally tend to play better making it more challenging. I don't need your points. If i did, I could have been season leader in other games if i just stayed at a set points and played non arena. There's no challenge there, but then again, my ego doesn't need imaginary points to make me feel good. Sorry that you do.

Hey, relax! You seem confused. Why are you writing this rant toward me? I was not the original poster in this thread. I am not the person who said any of the things you are attacking.

In fact, I agree with (most of) what you're saying. I play to win. Playing for second place is asinine.

Although, I am not sure why you feel the need to denigrate the notion of ELO ranking points as "imaginary". It's completely unnecessary with regard to your overall point. All "points" and "ratings" are "imaginary", in the sense they are not tangible things. So what? Is there some system in which rating points are non-imaginary? Can we play a game in a system somewhere in which we get a physical token representing each point and keep them in a drawer somewhere?

Also, in your post, you began with "I play to win", then said, "some of us just play for fun", implying that you are one of those people. SO, do you play to win, or play for fun? Or both, since winning is fun?

It's weird that you think playing for fun and to win are two different things. My argument is that if you are playing for points and attacking second instead of first, you are doing neither. Why do you feel that points are denigrated? You can play for prizes in real life. Terraforming Mars was one of the world series of games tournament games. If you want to argue for playing second in that type or arena, i could see your argument. If it was world rankings like chess where there is tangible rewards, i can see an argument. If you are top 5 in elo at the end of a season here you get....a badge on an internet website. If you are number one you get your name on the board for 90 days...on an internet website. Do you think that attacking second place players so you can get points for either of those is good sportsmanship? And it's people who aren't even elite who do this the most. It's literally insignificant

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32
It's weird that you think playing for fun and to win are two different things.

It's weird that you think I said that, since, in fact, I said the exact opposite. Are you reading my posts? Re-read my last sentence of my last post. I said, "SO, do you play to win, or play for fun? Or both, since winning is fun?" I thought that was making it clear that the two do not need to be mutually exclusive.

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32
My argument is that if you are playing for points and attacking second instead of first, you are doing neither.

Yep. You made that point many times, and no one has disputed it or disagreed with it. What has given you the impression that anyone, especially me, is disagreeing with you?

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32
Why do you feel that points are denigrated? You can play for prizes in real life.

Huh? You have loudly and repeatedly used the word "imaginary" with reference to ELO points here on this site, in an obvious mocking tone toward anyone who cares about their ELO points.

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32 Terraforming Mars was one of the world series of games tournament games.

Excellent. I'm glad that one of my favorite games is well-recognized as such.

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32
If you want to argue for playing second in that type or arena, i could see your argument.

"my" argument? At no point did I make that argument, In fact, I said the exact opposite. I believe my exact quite was, "Playing for second is asinine". I think you are getting confused as to who said what.

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32 If it was world rankings like chess where there is tangible rewards, i can see an argument. If you are top 5 in elo at the end of a season here you get....a badge on an internet website. If you are number one you get your name on the board for 90 days...on an internet website. Do you think that attacking second place players so you can get points for either of those is good sportsmanship?

No, I do not think that is good sportsmanship, and I never said it was. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said the opposite. How are you getting literally everything I said turned around to the exact opposite?

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32 And it's people who aren't even elite who do this the most. It's literally insignificant

Correct - I doubt an elite player would attack second place rather than going for the win.

You started coming after my when I merely answered your question as to whether the ORIGINAL POSTR was annoyed about not getting second place points. I replied, "Yes, I believe that is what the OP is complaining about".

I am very puzzled as to where you got the impression I'm the one arguing with you. In fact, no one is arguing with you. You are posting a series of bizarre rants in which you are arguing against nobody, since the only person you are addressing your rants to, me, has not said any of the things you are objecting to.

Solarman9 wrote: ↑18 February 2025, 08:32
I play to win. I don't play for second ever. Most of you do because you want your precious points that just feed some weird ego thing. People attack second place to make themselves second place. I have seen several games where second place was attacked instead of first and if they had attacked first, they would have won. You may find personal accomplishment being on a leader board. You may. Some of us just play for fun. In real life would you get mad if someone playing had to leave with 1 round left to go pick up his spouse who had a flat tire? No. Well, you shouldn't. But more people need to treat this as "would i do that in the real world and face to face " type scenarios. Would i waste my friend's time by discarding 1 card then passing then discarding one card and passing. Maybe you would. I play arena because it is an easier que and people generally tend to play better making it more challenging. I don't need your points. If i did, I could have been season leader in other games if i just stayed at a set points and played non arena. There's no challenge there, but then again, my ego doesn't need imaginary points to make me feel good. Sorry that you do.

You do not get to decide what people play a game for. Being it for imaginary points or million dollar prizes, what motivates people is something of their own.

That being said, that's the second post where you bring this whining argument. It seems you have some frustration management issues. I recommend you seek professional help.

Better yet, just play two player, where this entire class of issues does not occur.

There does need to be a better solution to make cases of abandonment more fair for other players and to punish those who are abusive in how much they abandon. I was impacted by this today and it got me a bit worked up.

Specifically, this player appears to be a relatively serial abandoner in Terraforming Mars Arena games yet continues to play / do it with very little consequence: https://boardgamearena.com/player?id=94 ... reputation

The user abandoned an Arena game just now (near end) I was playing (and winning big): https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=634094967

The site needs to do more to discourage this. Wasted an hour of my time, negated what otherwise would have been a win.

I suggest making it so the 'tie' between the other two players is entirely negated (the tie clearly has too much potential to negatively bring down ELO and Arena Points), both players are awarded a win, and an after game survey requests from the players whether they believe the abandon was purposeful & abusive or (as I have seen occasionally) a player warned that they needed to depart. If a player receives enough reports for abandoning purposefully, a ban (or at least from Arena mode) would be ideal.

This is why me and friends avoid any player that has under 100Reputation.
The ones who have less than 100 often leave and if person quits during 80+ minute game its just horrible experience

Agreed, this is awful, and I'm sorry you had to experience that SFactor. That said, there does exist some solution to help reduce the likelihood of this problem: you can set your karma filter in queues to >=85%. The person who did that in your last game had 50% karma (70% before their quit), so they wouldn't have been able to join your game in the first place.

I always play with this filter, and thankfully have not run into this more than maybe once or twice in hundreds of games played.

brh2113 wrote: ↑23 February 2025, 17:08 Agreed, this is awful, and I'm sorry you had to experience that SFactor. That said, there does exist some solution to help reduce the likelihood of this problem: you can set your karma filter in queues to >=85%. The person who did that in your last game had 50% karma (70% before their quit), so they wouldn't have been able to join your game in the first place.

I always play with this filter, and thankfully have not run into this more than maybe once or twice in hundreds of games played.

I have a filter setup for this but unfortunately it seems like it may be passed over at times. I think if you remain in queue for a long enough time (without premium membership) it may begin to prioritize you to matches that don't include all filters. Anyway, with or without this, I have still had folks with 100 karma quit on purpose (for example just now, today, making it back-to-back matches with an abandon: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=634566093 - another hour wasted), and with certain quick games it is exceptionally easy to rebuild karma. It would still be worthwhile to overhaul.