Board Game Arena

@FrankJones, it's times like this I wish I could upvote, star, or otherwise promote an excellent reply. Well said.

nik592 wrote: ↑03 May 2026, 02:51

tbhp wrote: ↑02 May 2026, 19:38 Also note that no one would say "it's just a game" if we were talking about a popular sports like football. In a way when people say that, they are implying that board games are something less important than real life sports competitions.

I don't really play or watch sports that much. I am very much not a diehard fan of any particular sport - I was the kid who hated PE, learned to play tennis under protest because my parents wanted me to be able to decently play at least one sport (and honestly, I'm probably slightly grateful for that in adulthood). If we're talking a friendly game of football (or tennis, or whatever) between friends, then yes, it's just a game. That said, real-life games don't tend to experience "bugs", unless you're trying to count the close calls by the umpire or players. I've certainly had/seen calls in a friendly game where it was difficult to say, and let something go that I think might have gone my way (or whoever I was supporting) because it's just a game.

So no, I don't see board games as less important than real-life sports, and yes I would still say, it's just a game.

Like you say, you were playing friendly games, which is totally different from playing competitively, in which case people probably wouldn't say "it's just a game".

You're right that there is no real life equivalent to "bugs". But I don't think sports fans would find it normal if a team was suddenly prevented from moving due to some universe glitch, and ended up losing because of that.

They find bad calls normal, which happen all the time. They complain endlessly, but they also accept that it's part of the game.

Pretty similar situation, really.

Kayvon wrote: ↑04 May 2026, 18:20 They find bad calls normal, which happen all the time. They complain endlessly, but they also accept that it's part of the game.

Pretty similar situation, really.

Professional sports literally put money into improving refereeing, and even create new technologies for it.

Like I said, people here would also accept it if the devs looked at a bug and couldn't find a solution in time. The expectation is that they at least try, like real referees try to be good referees, and that it should be a financially supported field rather than just volunteer work. That's the norm in any professional sport.

I understand that things may not be financially viable, but at the same time, why are you even on this website if you don't want board games to eventually be held to the same standards real life games are? What is the point of holding your position that things are fine as they are?

It's one thing to say it's not viable, it's another to say "there's no reason to even aim to do better". The money they used to create those interface changes, while it may not have been enough to fully realize my ideas, could at least have been used to start working on it, rather than being wasted on things that don't help advance board games on the long term.

tbhp wrote: ↑04 May 2026, 14:16 Like you say, you were playing friendly games, which is totally different from playing competitively, in which case people probably wouldn't say "it's just a game".

When I say friendly, I mean the type of game I play with people I know. That's not to say the players at that game wouldn't be competitive. But I'm talking about any kind of amateur competition, which basically ALL games on BGA would qualify in the same way as. Those are all "just games".

Professional sport (that is, sport as a career - I'm well aware that some large scale sporting events are only able to be entered by "amateurs", but realistically, these are people who devote their life to that sport while they are playing) is a different matter. Huge amounts of time and money are being invested, and, yes, that's probably more than "just a game". Very little on BGA is comparable to competitive sport (maybe something like the TTR World tournament, which culminates in a real-life final game), it's just a medium for players to meet each other and play games. Similar to a local sports club or fixtures.

nik592 wrote: ↑04 May 2026, 23:00 When I say friendly, I mean the type of game I play with people I know. That's not to say the players at that game wouldn't be competitive. But I'm talking about any kind of amateur competition, which basically ALL games on BGA would qualify in the same way as. Those are all "just games".

It's all relative. For most of the games on BGA, the website IS where the real competition happens. There are some exceptions like Chess, that have their own competitive scene which is valued higher than what happens on BGA. But for most games, this is where the real stuff happens, so you should expect people to care about it as much as fans of a certain sport would care about the professional competitive scene of that sport.

Interestingly, since I started playing on BGA last year, my interest in real sports like rugby and football has decreased a bit, because those real competitions seem less interesting now that I'm familiar with the competitions on this website. Of course, recency bias probably plays a role, but it goes to show that it's very subjective at the end of the day.

nik592 wrote: ↑04 May 2026, 23:00 Professional sport (that is, sport as a career - I'm well aware that some large scale sporting events are only able to be entered by "amateurs", but realistically, these are people who devote their life to that sport while they are playing) is a different matter. Huge amounts of time and money are being invested, and, yes, that's probably more than "just a game". Very little on BGA is comparable to competitive sport (maybe something like the TTR World tournament, which culminates in a real-life final game), it's just a medium for players to meet each other and play games. Similar to a local sports club or fixtures.

This gets into the problem I was denouncing with your posts. Of course, you don't have to personally agree on the importance of any given sport or board game, those are your interests and opinions. But it's important to acknowledge that there are people who do, and not to create a double standard when you talk about those things. If you care about board games (in a casual way in your case), why would you want to create the idea that they are something lesser than real life sports? It doesn't make much sense to me. They may be "just a game" to you, but you should be able to respect that this is not the case for everyone, exactly like you do when you acknowledge that real sports are not just a game for everyone.

E-sports went through the same thing. For a long time, people who weren't familiar with them were not taking them seriously. Then once huge sums of money started being put into it, and once people realized that those are real careers that players devote their life to, the general public started taking them seriously. This goes to show how capitalistically oriented most people are. You shouldn't respect a field because it makes money or because it's a profession. You should respect it because you know that there are people who care about it as much as people care about the more socially accepted things. It shouldn't matter how normalized a thing is, what matters is the feelings of the people invested in it.

tbhp wrote: ↑05 May 2026, 10:37 It's all relative. For most of the games on BGA, the website IS where the real competition happens. There are some exceptions like Chess, that have their own competitive scene which is valued higher than what happens on BGA. But for most games, this is where the real stuff happens, so you should expect people to care about it as much as fans of a certain sport would care about the professional competitive scene of that sport.

You are the only person I can recall arguing for games on BGA being more than "just a game". Even those who complain loudly about the bug that broke their game or lost them a tournament don't seem to come back and say "well, it's not just a game to ME..." And I am far from the only person to suggest that these are "just games" and the expectation that all critical bugs will be fixed quickly is unreasonable under the model that BGA run with.

In any case, as usual, I am done. My point was that BGA have made pretty clear what their model is - games are done by volunteer devs. A relatively small group of paid staff maintain the infrastructure. It's unlikely to change without significant investment and I don't think there are people willing to invest that kind of money and/or time. With over 1000 games to maintain, how many devs would they need just to triage the bugs, identify and fix the critical ones? Absolutely you should report the bugs. If they get fixed, great. If they don't, and the game is unplayable, well, it is what it is. This is what we have. And complaints in the forums saying that it's really not good enough that critical bugs exist in games is only likely to dissuade people from volunteering to develop them in the first place. But you do you.

What tbhp is saying has merit.

When it comes to board games, in many cases, BGA is where the real competition happens. If a player believes himself or herself to be the best in the world at a game (other than some famous games like chess and go), BGA is the world stage on which to demonstrate that ability. So, it is understandable that some people may take it very seriously.

I believe myself to be the best and/or top 5 in some games, and BGA is my stage on which to show this. I take those games very seriously, and I am very disappointed if/when I counter bugs or other problems that interfere in any way with those games.

I recognize and acknowledge and understand that others may not care and may not have this same level of interest/concern/dedication. Just as I hope they recognize and understand that some people do.

For some people, games here are "just a game". That's fine. For others, traversing the path toward world Elo #1 on BGA is a major and important goal. Just because money is not involved doesn't make it a less worthy goal. Very few people in life are going to be rich and famous. But here at BGA many people have a chance to be among the best in the world at something.

There are millionaires/billionaires in society who became wealthy and famous by making music or art I do not even like. In those cases, I am more impressed by people who have shown the dedication and skill to become world #1 Elo on BGA for some of my favorite games. Most of us cannot or will not ever be Magnus Carlsen. But some of us can be the Magnus Carlsen for a specific game or games here at BGA.