A waste of time: Unfair Karma penalties...

[Tisaac]

Why is no-one mentionning that quitting before the end of game might alter game results and ruin the game ?
This is exactly why there is a karma penalty for this situation for non 2p game since you are basically wasting the results by doing so since all the remaining players are all considered winners in such a case.
So please dont do that, play on faster tables

[Ceaseless]

You regularly play slowly and get kicked for going over time. You should already be aware of this option when facing opponents playing too slowly themselves.

Out of 127 recent games, I only timed out 4 times and resigned 7 times, precisely because of reasons I've been explaining. Calling that "regularly getting kicked for playing slowly" is a ridiculous exaggeration.
The arrogant attitude I'm receiving here perfectly highlights the very issue I wanted to raise: the system unconditionally punishes any resignation, completely ignoring that sometimes people concede out of fair play or due to genuine real-life emergencies.
Please don't bother replying, I'll concede the win to you. Good luck. and Goodbye.

After 127 games, having an unlucky internet crash causing you to get expelled 1-2 times is one thing, but getting manually removed from games by other players and quitting multiple times on your own? That's wild. The overtime issues are one thing, if you miss out by a few seconds and no one has an issue to kick you out, ok. But that isn't what is happening. BGA's reputation filter is rightfully going "watch out for this player" in this case.

[euklid314]

Resigning a game (whether it is out of fair play, obvious defeat, a personal emergency, or an unbearably slow opponent) already has a natural penalty: you lose the match and you lose ELO. This does not ruin the opponent's experience; they get an instant victory and can immediately move on to another game.

Yet, BGA also punishes this with a loss of Karma...

It has been pointed out already that this is wrong. If you resign ("concede") you only lose ELO, not Karma.

Why is resigning not possible in multiplayer games? Because in such a situation there is no fair way to judge the outcome of the game. Yes, you lose to all other players but the game cannot finish and the other players cannot be fairly ranked. Thus, resigning is not possible. If you quit in such a situation, you rightfully recieve a Karma deduction

Why is resigning not possible in 2-player games before 50% progression? Because players would use that to cheat the ELO system. They would win hundreds of games within minutes because their "opponents" (aka 2nd accounts) would resign before or after the first move. This has indeed happened and it is now more difficult to cheat because of the 50% hurdle. If you quit in such a situation, you rightfully recieve a Karma deduction.

[JimBut]

This does not ruin the opponent's experience; they get an instant victory and can immediately move on to another game.

This is probably where you lose people. I'm on BGA because I like to play games. Winning is certainly nice but is secondary to actually playing. If I spend time queuing or get a good chunk through a game for someone to quit and negate the results that is annoying.

As I view it the karma system is a way to signal to me players that are likely to not finish a game - either by timing out, leaving, e.t.c.

I would certainly not want a system that was any more lenient or allowed people to unilaterally quit games without being able to filter those people out

[LorenZo-M]

Sorry, I guess I'm in the wrong community.

[Romain672]

One thing much stronger you can do (and much harder) is to give suggestions on how to improve the system.
And the system:
- don't know why you leave a game
- need to do something with various 3+ players games after someone leave. Games like Yathzee could work great after someone leave, games with a lot of interaction or just some (Azul, Catan...) would be much harder

But from how you reacted to some comments, it seem that will not goes well.
I got in mind two ideas for your 'problems' which are proposed regularly.


To summarize what others have said: join faster settings , concede when it's available, and when it's not there is a reason for it. And so if you leave anyway, take the karma hit to show to others that you are leaving games frequently.

[FrankJones]

To the OP:

I do not understand the issue. In Arena, you can select "I am never okay with ...." for all of the slower game speeds.

If you do not do that, and you end up in games with slow speeds you are unhappy with, what exactly are you expecting anyone to do? The opponents are allowed to use their clock as long as they do not go into the negative.

[tbhp]

That assumes I have a choice in the table settings. But in modes like Arena, for example, you don't get to decide the speed or choose who opens the table; the matchmaking system handles all of that automatically.

Your complaint sounds even stranger in Arena. Shouldn't you be happy that they are giving you more time to think and win the game? But instead you want to quit (and therefore get a loss) when you very well could have won if you had waited. Why even play Arena then?

But here on BGA, if you decide to resign for whatever reason, you don't just lose ELO (which is a completely fair consequence of losing), you also get hit with a Karma penalty as if you were being toxic.

You are being toxic if you just quit with no regard for how it may affect your opponent. Karma isn't just for avoiding players who run out of time, it's also for avoiding players who tend to disrupt games for no reason, and leaving a game is a form of disruption.

The fact that actively clicking "Resign" is treated with the same harsh reputation penalty as rudely walking away and letting your timer run out is the logical flaw I am trying to discuss. It completely confuses a polite concession with toxic behavior.

Well when an opponent runs out of time, I don't assume they are doing so "rudely". I assume they must be having an issue and are not purposefully trying to annoy me.

When an opponent concedes on me, I know for a fact they intentionally clicked "resign" without asking me how I feel about it first. So yeah, I'm going to judge them more harshly than I judge people who run out of time.

[BarnardsStar]

Sorry, I guess I'm in the wrong community.

If you agree to play a game at a certain speed and get so fed up with another player actually playing at that speed (instead of much faster) that you feel you simply must quit and destroy the game for everybody else at the table? Yeah, you just might be in the wrong community.

Like this game? https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=875564681 I can see the green player’s clock is all over the map but never went negative. And yet you quit.

Same deal here: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=853512246

And here: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=849952853

[tarongot]

Resigning a game (whether it is out of fair play, obvious defeat, a personal emergency, or an unbearably slow opponent) already has a natural penalty: you lose the match and you lose ELO. This does not ruin the opponent's experience; they get an instant victory and can immediately move on to another game.

But that way (running from game is not resigning/concede game). Its more like overturning the table, and that should be punished with karma, even more severe than now.

If I understand you correctly what you are pointing out that there should be a mechanism to concede a 3+ player game. And I totally agree with that. And if one think about it, simple mechanism is easy to implemented.

A simple way to all players agree that current score order (who is first who second etc..) will be same at end of game, and agree to end it at this point, with additional option for player wanting to concede (set him/herself as last). A similar way that players agree to abandon or turn to play by mail mode.

But of course that would need all players to agree, and if there is no agreement, your obligation is still to play, even that you feel its pointless and waste of your time. That's just good sportsmanship.