BETA: Arena mode (Season 0 - BETA)

[sprockitz]

Can we please have the auction variant for clans of Caledonia. The game is really unbalanced without it

[Respublik]

There is one more thing that I really didn't see mentioned that much - there should be a way to double stack both Arena and regular lobby viewing modes and allow to join tables in either mode without leaving the other.

[dschingis27]

There is one more thing that I really didn't see mentioned that much - there should be a way to double stack both Arena and regular lobby viewing modes and allow to join tables in either mode without leaving the other.

I hope this was meant to be ironic. This point was probably the most frequent/loudest complaint about Arena in this thread.

But well done. BGA already changed that open tables from simple mode don't get lost when changing to Arena. Keep up the good work, BGA!

[Respublik]

There is one more thing that I really didn't see mentioned that much - there should be a way to double stack both Arena and regular lobby viewing modes and allow to join tables in either mode without leaving the other.

I hope this was meant to be ironic. This point was probably the most frequent/loudest complaint about Arena in this thread.
But well done. BGA already changed that open tables from simple mode don't get lost when changing to Arena. Keep up the good work, BGA!

I meant it as in BGA responses. Maybe I missed something if this was addressed...

[Marphod]

• Decrease waiting time (surprisingly, the waiting times are not so big, but a lot of you felt that so there are certainly room for improvement).
• Reduce the number of games that does not start because some player is away when it starts.

I'm not really sure how wait times are measured. I can tell you the estimated wait times are way off, in general, which makes me wonder how you are using the statistics and how they are being collected. For instance, I have sat in the arena waiting on a less popular game or two (quantum, or oddly, colt express) for over 30 minutes, when the expected wait time has remained at 1 minute the entire time. Given that no instance of that game has started in that time interval, that moving average for wait time should move to reflect my experience, even if no one else is waiting on the game.

Wait time for a real time game should be measured with consideration of:

• For real time, non tournament games only. And for Standard and Arena separately. (I don't know this isn't true, but given how statistics are measured for most games, i suspect a lot of bleed over)
• from when I start looking (or open/join an existing table) for a specific game until I start playing that game (even if it is at a different table). Abandoning tables should not count as success, games that fail to start due to someone not paying attention/declines are not successes. If I start playing another game, it should not count as a success. On the other hand, waiting on multiple tables should not be a consideration. The issue is how long a player waits.
• More than just wait times, but successful game starts should be actively considered in any 'how long does it take to find a game' consideration. After waiting 5 minutes (or whatever) for my first choice game(s) in the arena, I'll add second choice games. Even if that second choice starts immediately, it does not make my 5 minute wait on the first sufficient without the context that I did not find the game I wanted.
• As a live, moving average. The sum of the wait times for anyone who has been waiting on that game for the past 5 minutes (or whatever time interval), including anyone currently queued to play the game, divided by the number of players who have waited. If the game hasn't been started recently, expected wait times should also reflect that.

As for the number of games where a player is away, another comment made me think that there is a general assumption players are using the automatic mode to find games (where you auto join a game on start). I don't, at least outside of arena. This means I can check my email, or run to the bathroom, or whatever, while waiting. If i fail to notice a game start, it is annoying but an easily handled situation (don't hit start in 30 seconds, the table admin will probably expel you). I suspect that most players who have this issue are used to manual mode. The problem is with arena, you have to pay more attention while waiting (which is a terrible ux), and if the game starts, you have to wait a considerably longer time to kick an inactive user (waiting for clock+20, which in some games is often longer than the game takes in total, with fast players).

[Marphod]

Can we please have the auction variant for clans of Caledonia. The game is really unbalanced without it

I, for one, hate how the auction works. I'm much happier without (or where winning the auction does the same as picking first in regular mode -- you go last in the first round).
Beyond that, the settings for a game are fixed for a season. Full stop. Don't like the settings, ask to change for NEXT season. Changing mid season means you are no longer comparing people on equal footing.

[sprockitz]

Beyond that, the settings for a game are fixed for a season. Full stop. Don't like the settings, ask to change for NEXT season. Changing mid season means you are no longer comparing people on equal footing.

Maybe that'll be true when we are past the beta version, but that is clearly not the case this season. Number players have already changed twice this season for this game. The auction is by far more balanced, it is guaranteed balance within 1 point. The arena beta is going to change with the goal of getting things right. For competition let skill decide the winner, don't give a 15-20 point advantage to one player (in many setups) just because they got to pick their faction first.

[senatorhung]

thoughts so far:

if Arena is intended to be a separate ranking of the 'best' players and an alternative to 'simple' game mode .. then Arena matches should not affect ELO. just have those games set to ELO off.

in order to 'exit' from realtime arena matches, my workaround is to just switch to turn.based arena . that cancels any active arena matches that i have raised my hand for, but it seems strange that there isn't something more obvious for players who are going afk. not sure if some kind of toggle switch could be made to 'pause' your interest.

others have stated that the Arena currently rewards volume. with the level valves only opening higher, everyone who plays enough would theoretically eventually become elite (see the 193 'elite' players at can't stop at the current time). i noted another commenter stating that they enjoy tournaments of similar-ranked players more than this type of ladder system. so my suggestion here is to maybe cut down on the length of seasons (for 2p games anyway)- make them one month seasons. the first 2 weeks of each month, arena players compete in realtime games as you have now to get to a higher level. each level has a fixed number of slots. once those slots are filled, another level is added to the top. at the 2 week mark, the arena is paused and you have a 2 week round robin turn-based tournament among the players of each level. winners of the tourney get monthly arena trophies for their level, but also 'tickets' for the next month's arena, where they can 'buy' there way up a single level per ticket at any time - the higher the tourney level, the more tickets.

for something like yahtzee, i would invest time in the Arena, but only for the yams variant. same with 6nimmt, where tactics pro is where all the higher ELO players hang out, but the current Arena configuration doesn't match. having multiple configuration Arenas would better allow people to play the game the way they prefer, but increases the time required to find a matching Arena opponent. so i'm not sure how to address this.

[Waterd103]

One thing weird and bad is that if you are gold and you see a bronze as an opponent you shake because your expected value is against you and a single mistake cost you insane amount of points.
However once you are elite you see a bronzie and are like "ok whatever".

[logus30]

Not sure whether this is the correct place to report bugs but please redirect me if it's not.
Arena matching for terra mystica created a table with 3 players, although it was supposed to only create 4p tables.
Table id=63547992