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Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 29 December 2023, 14:34
by h_illes
Slightly off topic, but I'm throwing this in for good measure. I received negative Arena points for a win. That's some serious WTF.
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=449542561
(Yes, I submitted it also as a bug report, but two weeks was not enough to get a response to that.)
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=107164
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 29 December 2023, 17:13
by hammastahna
Now this is quite interesting. How is that even possible? It probably isn't related to overflowing as numbers are quite small here.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 29 December 2023, 22:19
by zizzeus
Want more examples of ELO bleeding out of the system due to power levelling?
https://boardgamearena.com/10/tzolkin?table=450964789
Consecutive wins against all three players ... smh.
Also, the majority of players don't read the forum. I almost never check in myself, and only came here when a common opponent drew my attention to these changes in the in-game chat. So if the site admins are judging support by absolute numbers, that's not very accurate.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 01:18
by GeoPaladin
zizzeus wrote: ↑29 December 2023, 22:19
Want more examples of ELO bleeding out of the system due to power levelling?
https://boardgamearena.com/10/tzolkin?table=450964789
Consecutive wins against all three players ... smh.
Also, the majority of players don't read the forum. I almost never check in myself, and only came here when a common opponent drew my attention to these changes in the in-game chat. So if the site admins are judging support by absolute numbers, that's not very accurate.
Ditto RE: not using the forums typically. The only reason I checked out the forums is because I got 0 elo against an opponent because I beat him a few times over a month out of hundreds of matches. I dropped by because I was very curious what happened there.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 01:42
by TricksyFox
And this thread is no longer one of the pinned Official Announcements, so it's going to be even harder for people to find out what happened.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 02:18
by nik592
Yes, I think there's been at least 2 or 3 people popping up in the general forums asking why they didn't gain ELO for a gain, and/or posting bugs. In fact, if people think they're not getting the correct ELO, they're probably more posting bugs than forum posts.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 05:56
by lena_gri
I'd like to add my voice to the pool of those who dislike some of the new changes.
Reduced wins against repeated opponents:
In Arena you don't get to choose your oppponent, so how do you even control this?
Or does it not apply to Arena?
ELO Decay
- you already have 2 systems protecting from the problem: one is that only recent ranking is showing on leaderboards, and two is that Arena season is a complete reset. So people who dont play in current season dont show up anywhere and therefore dont affect anyone.
- ELO is meant to reflect the skill. If you artificially remove it, it stops serving the purpose.
- Many people (myself included) are trying to reach some levels and feel an achievement. ANd want to see it saved. If I dont play and come after a while and I lose all the level, I feel robbed of all the time inversted in getting the level. Ask chess players, how would they feel if their level disappeared after they went on a hyatus.
- It is also awfully unfair that when a decayed player comes back, and plays agains other opponents who gain or loose points inappropriately, again defeating the purpose of ELO and distorting its value.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 06:00
by h_illes
lena_gri wrote: ↑30 December 2023, 05:56
I'd like to add my voice to the pool of those who dislike some of the new changes.
Reduced wins against repeated opponents:
In Arena you don't get to choose your oppponent, so how do you even control this?
Or does it not apply to Arena?
It does apply to Arena games.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 09:39
by LesserJester
lena_gri wrote: ↑30 December 2023, 05:56
I'd like to add my voice to the pool of those who dislike some of the new changes.
Reduced wins against repeated opponents:
In Arena you don't get to choose your oppponent, so how do you even control this?
Or does it not apply to Arena?
ELO Decay
- you already have 2 systems protecting from the problem: one is that only recent ranking is showing on leaderboards, and two is that Arena season is a complete reset. So people who dont play in current season dont show up anywhere and therefore dont affect anyone.
- ELO is meant to reflect the skill. If you artificially remove it, it stops serving the purpose.
- Many people (myself included) are trying to reach some levels and feel an achievement. ANd want to see it saved. If I dont play and come after a while and I lose all the level, I feel robbed of all the time inversted in getting the level. Ask chess players, how would they feel if their level disappeared after they went on a hyatus.
- It is also awfully unfair that when a decayed player comes back, and plays agains other opponents who gain or loose points inappropriately, again defeating the purpose of ELO and distorting its value.
Well said. I have already stopped playing some games where I was trying to reach a certain ELO as it will be meaningless from now on.
Re: 🌿ELO System Updates
Posted: 30 December 2023, 11:53
by Monoleeth17
I have been on BGA since 2014, and I saw power levelling many times. It was high time to deal with this. However, I think the implementation is imperfect.
I have never leveled my ELO up, and I have never had a secondary account. I am a legit player. I play in the Arena of Race for the Galaxy, and I have a chance to be in top 20. I also like my ELO. I have a nice chance to beat the same RANDOM opponent several time. I got -44% ELO for 4th consecutive win, -69% for 5th and -100% for 6th.I think a typical power levelling consists of at least a couple of ten games, so I think this penalty rate is unjustified. Especially it is in Arena where opponents are randomly selected. Would you be so kind as to reconsider the rate of penalty?