🌿ELO System Updates

[LesserJester]

The new ELO system isn't even applying ELO points correctly when someone quits:
https://boardgamearena.com/7/nextstatio ... =455877560

Game result cancelled (Someone left this game before the end) :
The player who left (or was skipped) lost the game and got a ☯ penalty.
The other players won this game and get 99% of normal ELO points (because 99% of this game was played before the incident).

1st carlocolombo (1)
+12 -> 206

1st LesserJester (1)
+0 -> 588

3rd sabadilla (0)
-7 - 10 -> 109

[Actual scores
143
176
129]
------

Details of ELO calculation LesserJester(1st)

588.41 Before this game
0 ELO variation
588.41 After this game
You cannot lose ELO when a player quits the game

194 carlocolombo (1st)
Win probability: 91%
TIE
-6.03
116 sabadilla (3rd)
Win probability: 94%
WIN
+0.92

Setting aside the unfairness of getting no score when the other player and I both played the remaining 2 turns and completed the game with me winning by >30 points, the +0.92 I should be awarded from the 3rd quitter player has not been awarded. Why not? I'm getting penalised twice, once from the quitter cropping the game just before the death and then by it saying I tied with someone when I beat them. If it nulls tie scores why is the ELO still being aggregated for these tied positions?

The other player who actually came 2nd gets +12 ELO, half of which is attributed to a tie with me. Why? We weren't tied, nowhere near it. But if ties are being treated as nulled they should only get the points from the quitter too.

This new system is so badly implemented it's beyond a joke. All someone needs to do is create a 2nd account, play 3p games and wait to see if they are winning or not, then get their dummy account to quit at the last moment. They get mega ELO boost while the actual winner gets nothing. New ELO system to improve fairness? That's not how it looks to me.

[6element]

What should BGA do with Elo stealing:
* Revert
* Revert + apologies to community
---> you're here now
* Revert + apologies to community + refund stolen Elo
* Revert + apologies to community + refund stolen Elo + refund money for December
* Revert + apologies to community + refund stolen Elo + refund money for December + fire "designer" behind Elo stealing

[irwincs]

Our family has enjoyed board gaming for decades and love the fellowship that grows out of it. First, let me say that BGA is an excellent service that has unlocked a wonderful way to experience the joy of playing board games, without the time-consuming ordeal of setup and tear-down when playing the physical equivalents.
My wife and I used to play physical board games every night and keep track of our scores at our favourite games in a spreadsheet. We discovered BGA a couple of years ago after cleaning up one of our games with lots of little pieces and we now play on BGA almost every evening. Out of our online gaming experience, I discovered that I have a knack for Agricola and now also play that competitively on BGA.
My wife and I are both premium members of BGA and, until these recent changes, would have no hesitation in recommending your service to other people who love board gaming like we do.
That said, I would submit that the following ELO system updates, including both those that were “silently” implemented and those that are pending are terrible and will degrade the quality of both your service and your customers’ experience with it:
1. Power Levelling – Last Arena season, I got on a roll and beat the eventual champion of Arena Season 14 six times consecutively. It’s absurd that I shouldn’t be rewarded with 0 ELO for beating the best player in the world 6 times in a row. This also degrades our experience with the service when my wife and I play together and one of us “gets on a roll” in a particular game and are rewarded with 0 ELO. Once you hit that threshold, your ELO plateaus and you can only get a higher ELO by losing a game. Prior to this change, the ELO system was already sufficiently self regulating, rewarding better players with less ELO than they would otherwise receive from beating a higher rated player.
2. ELO Decay – This one makes no sense; if you’re a good player you shouldn’t be forced to play to keep your standing, especially if you play lots of different games. Why would you punish your customers for excelling in the games they play?
3. Red Thumbing – I agree with Lumin and others that this is the worst of all of the changes. Don’t you want your customers to have a positive gaming experience? Yes, it can be abused, but your customers should be able to avoid players with whom they have had a bad gaming experience. Red Thumbing is the only way to ensure that and would definitely be a reason to consider cancelling our subscription to your service.
Instead of implementing these changes, why not implement the changes recommended by your paying customers? I call out in particular the changes recommended by Lumin:
• Higher Karma penalties - https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=66050
• Raising Arena Karma threshold - https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=66049
Also, I have seen a noticeable degradation in the performance of BGA as it has become more popular. I played one real-time game of Agricola that took over 3 hours to play due to server lag and was once nearly expelled from a game due to server lag. Why not focus your efforts on improving the quality of your service instead of implementing changes that degrade your customers’ gaming experience?

[Siveure]

The new ELO system isn't even applying ELO points correctly when someone quits:
https://boardgamearena.com/7/nextstatio ... =455877560

Game result cancelled (Someone left this game before the end) :
The player who left (or was skipped) lost the game and got a ☯ penalty.
The other players won this game and get 99% of normal ELO points (because 99% of this game was played before the incident).

1st carlocolombo (1)
+12 -> 206

1st LesserJester (1)
+0 -> 588

3rd sabadilla (0)
-7 - 10 -> 109

[Actual scores
143
176
129]
------

Details of ELO calculation LesserJester(1st)

588.41 Before this game
0 ELO variation
588.41 After this game
You cannot lose ELO when a player quits the game

194 carlocolombo (1st)
Win probability: 91%
TIE
-6.03
116 sabadilla (3rd)
Win probability: 94%
WIN
+0.92

Setting aside the unfairness of getting no score when the other player and I both played the remaining 2 turns and completed the game with me winning by >30 points, the +0.92 I should be awarded from the 3rd quitter player has not been awarded. Why not? I'm getting penalised twice, once from the quitter cropping the game just before the death and then by it saying I tied with someone when I beat them. If it nulls tie scores why is the ELO still being aggregated for these tied positions?

The other player who actually came 2nd gets +12 ELO, half of which is attributed to a tie with me. Why? We weren't tied, nowhere near it. But if ties are being treated as nulled they should only get the points from the quitter too.

This new system is so badly implemented it's beyond a joke. All someone needs to do is create a 2nd account, play 3p games and wait to see if they are winning or not, then get their dummy account to quit at the last moment. They get mega ELO boost while the actual winner gets nothing. New ELO system to improve fairness? That's not how it looks to me.

This is not new. I agree that it's silly but it's not new.

What happens in a multiplayer game where a player quits - the game treats this as a draw between all other players in first place, and the quitter in last place. It then calculates elo as if that was the result. In a very unevenly ranked table this leads to weak players gaining elo vs strong players (potentially as much as they did vs the quitter) and the strong player having any win vs the quitter obviated by the tie vs a much weaker opponent. As a band-aid bga prevents you losing elo if there's a quitter, but this is the calculation it's doing.

I've reconciled myself to this as I noticed if this is happening you would probably be losing elo if you were not 1st and probably not gaining very much for being first so the game being gone does not cost very much.

[MANNY-OLIVIA]

Keep up the excellent work BGA.

[TrueCaleb]

I'm also disappointed by the ELO changes for decay and power levelling.

Please reverse these decisions BGA.

[h_illes]

Players have been very vocal about these changes, to say the least, yet there has been zero communication from BGA. This is truly shocking. You don't need more responses, you need to take action.

[MANNY-OLIVIA]

It's time there were some changes!!!

ELO - KARMA - RED THUMBS are neither use nor ornament at present.

[LesserJester]

It's time there were some changes!!!

ELO - KARMA - RED THUMBS are neither use nor ornament at present.

I find red thumbs most useful in blocking undesirable opponents. People who frequently quit games for example.

Could you elaborate why you think there need to be changes and what those changes should look like?

[MANNY-OLIVIA]

BGA Admin know exactly what I mean.