Board Game Arena

Ursula1972 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 11:05The problem with this ELO is that when you know the game you have to play 100 games before some people would play with you in higher missions because of the system to not invite Beginners and apprentices. If you can climb up quicker you don't have that problem anymore. You have proven to know the game.

So how many games you would want?
I saw some games asked for >30elo (/games).

Romain672 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 17:47

Ursula1972 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 11:05The problem with this ELO is that when you know the game you have to play 100 games before some people would play with you in higher missions because of the system to not invite Beginners and apprentices. If you can climb up quicker you don't have that problem anymore. You have proven to know the game.

So how many games you would want?
I saw some games asked for >30elo (/games).

Sorry, i don't understand your question.

Highest mission in a whole game completed:
between 1-10 = 1 ELO
between 11-20 = 5 ELO
between 21-30 = 10 ELO
between 31-40 = 15 ELO
between 41-50 = 20 ELO


If you gain 20 ELOpoints for completing one single game between 41-50 you will jump up quicker and reach 100 ELO much faster. I often play around 20-30 with apprentices and i noticed people leave the game when they see that one crewmember is around 30-40 in ELO. I'm thinking this isn't the way to welcome new Crewplayers who have the game themselves and are already quite experienced to ask them to play 100 Crewgames first.

Sorry for my english.

Romain672 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 17:47

Ursula1972 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 11:05The problem with this ELO is that when you know the game you have to play 100 games before some people would play with you in higher missions because of the system to not invite Beginners and apprentices. If you can climb up quicker you don't have that problem anymore. You have proven to know the game.

So how many games you would want?
I saw some games asked for >30elo (/games).

If you meant you can choose to play with an other category then Beginners and apprentices, yes i had thought about that before but my solution is better because an extra category is not necessary when you can reach Elo 100 faster with this system, and an extra category is not usefull in all other games:
Highest mission in a whole game completed:
between 1-10 = 1 ELO
between 11-20 = 5 ELO
between 21-30 = 10 ELO
between 31-40 = 15 ELO
between 41-50 = 20 ELO

Ursula1972 wrote: ↑20 September 2021, 08:23

Romain672 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 17:47

Ursula1972 wrote: ↑19 September 2021, 11:05The problem with this ELO is that when you know the game you have to play 100 games before some people would play with you in higher missions because of the system to not invite Beginners and apprentices. If you can climb up quicker you don't have that problem anymore. You have proven to know the game.

So how many games you would want?
I saw some games asked for >30elo (/games).

If you meant you can choose to play with an other category then Beginners and apprentices, yes i had thought about that before but my solution is better because an extra category is not necessary when you can reach Elo 100 faster with this system, and an extra category is not usefull in all other games:
Highest mission in a whole game completed:
between 1-10 = 1 ELO
between 11-20 = 5 ELO
between 21-30 = 10 ELO
between 31-40 = 15 ELO
between 41-50 = 20 ELO

If you read my first post, you would see that this is simply not possible with current framework. I cannot offer a constant ELO gain at the end of a game at the moment.

ELO on any game is not particularly good. If you play the same person over and over you can beat them a lot because you know how to beat them and this makes your ELO high and you look good but once you play other people you need different tactics and therefore you discover how poor you still are despite your ELO.

I therefore think in a Cooperative game an incremental ELO is as good a fudge as anything. I would just like a point per completed mission. Perhaps even a point for failed ones and 2 for completed ones. It all shows some level of experience. You know that someone with an ELO of 500 has at least played the game a bit whereas a person with 10 has limited experience.

Your original question of what level should be set for an opponent hasn't really been discussed. If you are saying you can't have an incremental award then take a guess at the level and review it regularly to see if the games seem to be awarded reasonably. Something in place has to be better than just giving a single point award regardless of missions completed.

RicardoRix wrote: ↑18 January 2021, 17:04 yeah, don't make ELO a thing for co-op games - have you seen the division it creates?

That's right. I've seen quite some players with 700+ Elo in Hanabi but can't get any competetive game above 200. They're all terriblly weak players in fact. However, the fake Elo in Hanabi makes them proud and arrogant.

PurpleSunday wrote: ↑19 January 2021, 02:48 Worst of all, Crew could go the way of Hanabi and be inundated with players demanding to abandon after one wrong move.

The easy fix for this problem in both Hanabi and The Crew (and all co-op games): abandoning a game still results in ELO score. If players don't like that, then they can play with ELO off.

Of course, I say "easy fix," but it would probably require re-writing code for the entire BGA site ...

Sure, some players would complain about that change. And sure, a few players would cause ELO losses for other players. But that's exactly why we have ELO scores and Karma scores - so you can set parameters on what kind of players you want to play with. Eventually the bad players would end up with lower ELOs, which allows the better players to set restrictions on the table and weed out bad players (which is currently impossible, since ELO does not equal skill in the game).

And again: if players don't like it, then they can play with ELO off. With the current way ELO works for The Crew (and even Hanabi), you might as well do that anyway ... ELO is pretty close to meaningless right now.

Edit:
+1 for the ideas/observations that others have comment in this thread:
1) There must be a way to lose ELO, or else we don't have ELO - we have an EXP (experience) score (and a very incomplete one, at that)
2) Assign ELO based on the team's average ELO ranking. A high ELO player can play with a low ELO player, and not risk losing as much ELO.
3) A game's ELO should factor in:
..... the number of missions completed (more missions completed = higher ELO)
..... the levels of missions played (higher levels are worth more ELO)
..... the number of failed missions (each failed mission reduces the ELO awarded)

is a fix for crew / deep sea crew elo still in the works? it would be great to be able to play with others of similar skill. i bet more people would play if it were possible.

I completed full 50 missions - it took us like 5 hours.

And at the end, with the victory we all got +1 to ELO???

This is very strange and not fair compared to other games that don't take even a percent of that concentration as The Crew does!

Tisaac wrote: ↑20 September 2021, 10:28 I cannot offer a constant ELO gain at the end of a game at the moment.

Tisaac, I'd like to thank you for all your work on both of these Crew games. With each mission having different rules it must have been a ton of work, and your work is excellent!! I've enjoyed a lot of hours playing.

In Regicide ufm set a specific ELO gain according to the settings. For instance, 2p default settings will gain 2 players 24 ELO every time, regardless if the players have 0 ELO or 6000 ELO. He has set up a specific ELO bonus for each setting adjustment, so that on those settings you know exactly what your ELO gain will be if you are successful. Your current ELO is irrelevant.

I don't know what's possible. My suggestion is to gain 0.1 to 5.0 for each of the missions (.1 X the mission number). Then add a bonus for the number of missions played during the session (making playing longer attractive). Then have a subtraction for failed attempts. The subtraction would have to be adjusted differently according to the level of the missions. I would help figure this out better, if it's interesting to you.