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Ah, I'm not sure I'd be able to convince enough players that the game is askew. I suppose if everybody enjoys the excitement that the dice bring to this game...they're on a level playing field. I consider it worse than playing against the AI. Sure, I'll play the AI, but it doesn't mean a thing. It's similar to watching a reality show...yah, that's true life fo sure. Truth is; The dice don't mean a thing in this game, so go ahead and give yourself over to them.

I can't say that I fully understand your position

I went into this knowing full well that nobody would get what I am talking about. You don't even know how the dice effect your game play. Dice Rule! 80% of players don't even know they are being controlled by the dice...you see it, you speak it, you love it. Get into the game, don't allow the dice to get to you.
Enjoy

Waltero, out.

P.S. Before I created this post, I tried to post it in suggestions. I followed the link (for M44) in the Suggestion topic, didn't function as stated. Posted anyway. Wanted to get it out there, see if anybody had a clue.

Dice, I don't need No stinking Dice!!!

Until Carcassonne uses real numbers to account for each piece and each player is allowed to choose a piece from a pile. There will never be true RNG on the game unless this method is used. Also are all the tiles chosen before the match starts on a regular game, or does it "ADAPT" like when the builder is used. I'm calling out RIGGED games on here....

Dr StrangeIove wrote: ↑11 June 2022, 00:45 Until Carcassonne uses real numbers to account for each piece and each player is allowed to choose a piece from a pile. There will never be true RNG on the game unless this method is used. Also are all the tiles chosen before the match starts on a regular game, or does it "ADAPT" like when the builder is used. I'm calling out RIGGED games on here....

Please dont hijack this thread, this is NOT what it's about, another conspiracy anwser wont help any of the sides here
@waltero, your suggestion was correctly created, let's see if other players upvote or not.

waltero wrote: ↑07 June 2022, 06:24 I've trained myself (crazy hard) not to think or even look at the dice.

Sounds like you need to use this same strategy with the chat window, but I'm not the expert here.

Sounds like you need to use this same strategy with the chat window

Believe me I've tried...Only I like to greet my Opponent.
Why promote Un-sportsman like behavior?

If you have played the game one dozen times you would know the Dice don't serve a purpose. Once you know the game You would understand this to be fact. So, you might want to ask yourself - how is it those skilled players are against such an "impossible" suggestion? When in reality it really shouldn't matter, right?

Difference being - oh man that inf of yours was a berserker, he wasted four units and two Armor divisions. Opposed too - Lucky, you had some good dice rolls. You will come across this every time. And 80% of the time when viewing the Dice stats, my dice were worse than his! Lots of players play differently (much worse) when dice are involved...that's just a fact.

I was simply trying to get players into the game. Seems you would rather be about dice and points, good luck.

You're really missing out if you've never lost yourself in a good game...The moment disbelief even appears, you've already lost.

waltero wrote: ↑07 July 2022, 01:58 If you have played the game one dozen times you would know the Dice don't serve a purpose.

Don't the dice serve the purpose of imposing randomness and variety into the game? As they usually do in boardgames.. That's why everyone finds your suggestion so strange. If you don't like the randomness, it's ok, then play Chess, Santorini or another war game with less randomness. But just ignoring the dice will not get you rid of the randomness underlying the game.

Even if dice are not shown, the progress and outcome of the game is still guided by randomness, it's hard to understand that if dice were not shown, you would not also be annoyed by the example situation you gave. Because the bad luck you had would be the same and how could you not feel it as bad luck?

Or I still don't understand you..

dschingis27 wrote: ↑07 July 2022, 08:41

waltero wrote: ↑07 July 2022, 01:58 If you have played the game one dozen times you would know the Dice don't serve a purpose.

Don't the dice serve the purpose of imposing randomness and variety into the game?
...
Or I still don't understand you..

He just tries to say that the visualisation of the dice is useless (an opinion I don't personally share).
Instead of showing a dice roll showing 4, and then the game moves you "4 steps"(or whatever game you're playing), instead the game just skips showing the dice and goes straight into the action.

voriki wrote: ↑07 July 2022, 09:42

dschingis27 wrote: ↑07 July 2022, 08:41

If you have played the game one dozen times you would know the Dice don't serve a purpose.

Don't the dice serve the purpose of imposing randomness and variety into the game?
...
Or I still don't understand you..

He just tries to say that the visualisation of the dice is useless (an opinion I don't personally share).
Instead of showing a dice roll showing 4, and then the game moves you "4 steps"(or whatever game you're playing), instead the game just skips showing the dice and goes straight into the action.

I believe their aim is to ask for the display of the virtual dice rolls to have an option to be hidden because their opinion is that a "true war gamer" should not depend on luck, but on strategy. They want to "purify" the game because they believe the display of the virtual dice causes their opponents to focus only on the luck of the dice and not in the overall strategy. Ironically, they also can't convince their "grognards" to play Memoir '44 with them because...they're too focused on the dice part of the gameplay.

Just like their suggestion was confusing to many here in the forums, it would be equally as confusing for new players to understand what mechanics are driving the results of their actions if the dice are not represented.

While I can agree to their premise that a veteran player should incorporate strategy around the luck aspect of the game, their method of playing opponents "at their level" would be better achieved if they simply restricted the access to the table to only seat higher level ELO rankings (Strong Players, Experts or Masters).

I get what Waltero is trying to say. It helps to get since he has been saying stuff like this for a long time on other fora as well.

Where I disagree with Waltero is what has helped him see the game as strategic and tactical instead of luck based might not be what helps others to make that same step. Great that it helped him, but trying to impose your journey/solutions on others is not the right path for me.

Yes, Memoir’44 players moan about the dice and tell their opponent: well you had bad dice. This instead of telling your opponent he made mistakes, which can come across as rude also.

But in the community there are a lot of players who know their skill and view the dice as Waltero would want them to. They do not moan but just kick your but at the table and enjoy themselves (winning or losing).

See you on the battlefields

see the game as strategic and tactical instead of luck based might not be what helps others to make that same step.

True. I'm sure there are many players who 'wouldn't' even consider playing this game if it weren't for the dice. In Fact, I believe it is the "Beautifully, unique" dice that made this game what it is today. The converse is true too - Dice, being one's breaking point.

the progress and outcome of the game is still guided by randomness

Randomness in games is a physically created ‘thing’, unlike luck, which is illusory.

Don't the dice serve the purpose of imposing

Playing tabletop games seems to create a much greater dependence upon luck than, let’s say, a video game.
‘luck’ mitigation, might be what he is talking about.

Because the bad luck you had would be the same and how could you not feel it as bad luck?

By seeing the game as strategic and tactical instead of luck based...might be a good "first step."

Note: Waltero's First post indicates "Memoir 44." Applying to M44 game, only?