Board Game Arena

I cannot imagine a more correct and natural one than by figures eliminated.

Where is your imagination? Why should the outcome default to a draw/tie when other relevant statistics are in play? If those statistics show how one player outperformed the other player, regardless of a matching medal count, those statistics should mean something.

A win is great, and a loss is what it is. A tie though is basically a loss for each player. Players of M44 have been "trained" to think a draw is a Win. It’s even more troublesome when you see some players actively playing for a tie because it’s better than a loss...This is because training is quite restrictive in nature and the player will only be trained according to what the game perceives to be the outcome that should be reached. As it stands right now, every Scenario is to be considered a training game...Training Day is Over...learn, get actively involved. Open the Scenario up for a learning experience. Allow the Scenario to dictate the Condition of victory.

Scenario that we played that was poorly designed and has a ZERO rating.

Poorly designed only because the Game itself decides victory conditions. If the Scenario Victory conditions were in effect, it could possibly be the greatest Scenario ever devised...won't know because never even consider the Scenario victory conditions.

Situation: Game match, Last turn. Tied in medals. Value of units= 1.0 inf. - 1.1 Tank - 1.2 Arty.
Question: player 1 is a skilled player. Player 2 is a Novis, first game. Player 2 needing one unit figure (1.0) for a draw. Player 2 has two units he can target (inf - 1.0 or a tank - 1.1), which one will he choose? He will follow his training and take a draw...A draw is a win for him. Same situation: player 1 - which would she choose? She would target the tank (1.1) for the win...because She knows (learned opposed to trained) how to win, and what it takes to win.

Why not declare a tied game a Draw?
Example: 51 Games • 35 Victories • 4 Draws • 67% wins

Or putting a value on unit figures? Tie goes to the defender/Attacker? If a tie is going to be sought after, more thought should be involved.

As it stands right now, a scenario could be created where medals Don't mean a thing. Could create a scenario where the defender (if they keep hold of City) wins...medals wouldn't even be Considered. Strait up win or lose.

PaskinsP wrote: ↑20 November 2022, 20:53

vincentt wrote: ↑20 November 2022, 10:27 Hi all

We have read carefully your opinions on this subject.
We have reached to the editor to get their position and they are thinking about a better tie breaker.
We will communicate about it when it’s confirmed and implemented.

In the mean time, continue playing and winning

Vincentt & Tisaac

It is always nice to hear that the developers are listening in to the community's conversation.

That being said... among the many m44 players, I would wager to say it is a small vocal minority, present here, who would like to change the current tie break.

Speaking foy myself... I cannot imagine a more correct and natural one than by figures eliminated.
Any change would be sub-par...

Lets see what the author says, but I am NO fan of changing such an important point just due to a vocal minority.

I agree with the poster there is a lot of energy talking about something that cannot be changed with the online model as that is how the designer intended it to be played, sure one can add "House Rules" but that would probably be best discussed on the board game forum.

Would rather the design team at BGA fix bugs, Put up some more official scenarios, implement more units and card decks etc.

I agree with the poster there is a lot of energy talking

OK, and?

something that cannot be changed

So why not work with what is available?

That is how the designer intended it to be played

Is it really? Seems to me the [Scenario] designers had something else in mind.

that would probably be best discussed on the board game forum.

I thought this was the M44 game board Forum?

I believe it is possible to Create A Scenario that would void ties all together...with the current program...rendering medals irrelevant.
I'd love to play a Scenario where medals didn't matter...Win or lose, (defense/Assault) strait up.

Fuddly wrote: ↑22 November 2022, 03:50

I agree with the poster there is a lot of energy talking

OK, and?

something that cannot be changed

So why not work with what is available?

That is how the designer intended it to be played

Is it really? Seems to me the [Scenario] designers had something else in mind.

that would probably be best discussed on the board game forum.

I thought this was the M44 game board Forum?

I believe it is possible to Create A Scenario that would void ties all together...with the current program...rendering medals irrelevant.
I'd love to play a Scenario where medals didn't matter...Win or lose, (defense/Assault) strait up.

I mentioned the Board Game Forum on DoW not Game Board forum LoL, I was talking about Face to Face play and there is a place for that on the Days of Wonder website.
The scenarios are categorized as Official and you are bringing up DYO scenarios which are not playtested or approved by the game designer but of course you can design any scenario you want
Ok enough said on this topic

Either you don't understand, or you simply don't care. You and I played a Scenario from the Days of Wonder database.

I have never seen, nor did I know that Breakthrough Scenarios even existed. It opened up an entirely new game for me. I was really exited!
I thought this was Awesome!!! I read the Scenario Conditions of Victory and went for it. About halfway through our game I realized that you weren't at all interested in accomplishing (which was a must) the Scenario victory conditions.

The Scenario we played was - THE ROAD TO MOSCOW - Conditions of Victory:
12 medals. The Germans must receive at least one medal by gaining one of the victory hexes at the Russian edge of the map.

At games end you mentioned that this was a silly Scenario (which I was in agreement). SO, we decided to go on to a different Scenario. Side note: I conceded (training mode), thinking there were no repercussions inflicted against my game stats - there were.

Point being: Why didn't this game provide players with the Ability to accomplish said victory conditions? Is it because it is not permitted or that the Current Scenario designers don't think the current map editor or program would allow for this kind of scenario? It only appears as if none of the Scenarios allows for this - fact is, the game will allow for this. Understanding, believing that a Scenario's only way to victory is collecting medals - nothing but Medals on the mind. Circumvent the collection of Medals as being the prime principle of the game...Scenario Prime (has a nice ring to it)!

@Wiking44: From my understanding you've created a few Scenarios? I haven't played enough to even think about doing a scenario...not enough time either.

I have an idea (not having to change a thing) that would provide players with scenarios like Tobruk, Stalingrad, Battle of the Bulge etc. Where medals would not be the deciding factor. Providing M44 with Learning Scenario's. Learning how to Assault, focusing on defense...objective's that are set in stone. The Objective is it. Giving fair opportunity for a losing player to win the match opposed to players wanting to quit in the middle of game once they score enough victory medals. Where if both players lose - the medals call the tie breaker.

I have no Idea if there are any existing Scenarios like the ones, I have described? Please tell?

feel free to discuss

Ok enough said on this topic

Is this official? No matter I'm burned out...got burned out with players wanting to quit game in the middle of a match. One-minute excited next minute Blaaaah! Guess I'll leave it to the experts. Think outside the Box.

@Fuddly

You must at least concede that you are in the minority here, with your great emphasis on having to play all-or-nothing for the victory objective.

Most, if not all other players, seem to have interiorized the winning conditions... and play inside that frame, in a coherent and at least somewhat conflict-simulation-manner.

Would you agree with this assesment?

You are getting a bit close to a "Don Quixote"-like figure, with all those angry tirades.

@Fuddly
You did not lose any ELO or Points when playing in Training Mode

having to play all-or-nothing for the victory objective.

What's the difference? GO ahead and take a look at any Scenario you like. Most, if not all Scenarios place Victory Objectives as the main Conditions of Victory. I'm not talking about having to play anything. I'm asking; Why nobody has accomplished a functioning Scenario with this goal [clearly] in mind? I first assumed they did not think it possible.

Most, if not all other players, seem to have interiorized the winning conditions... and play inside that frame

I now see, it is far Worse than I initially thought. Note: A War Game needs to have clear objectives that go beyond a better understanding of the competitor’s potential actions. There should be no magic list of objectives in a war game

play inside that frame, in a coherent and at least somewhat conflict-simulation-manner.

The difference between going to Boot Camp vs West point.

Wouldn't you like to have a choice; play a game (that you know very well), or a Scenario that you've never experienced?

If I had the time and Energy, I would love to create a scenario like this. I know very little about the mechanics of this game, I am 99% sure it is doable.

You are getting a bit close to a "Don Quixote"-like figure

Don Quixote is one of the most-translated books in the world...and you still don't get it.

Enough with this topic already...I'm done.

Having fun with what you got.