Board Game Arena

DrakeStorm wrote: ↑06 September 2024, 19:45 You assume that since I have expulsions and time penalties, I shouldn't be playing Arena mode. If you did a little more digging, you would see that 99% of my penalties is from waiting for an Arena game to start, I forget I'm waiting, and then someone kicks me out. Or the nicer people wait and I realize the game started but have a time penalty. The really nice people abandon the game, but I've come to not expect that. I am assuming you are the type of person who will hit the expel button 1 millisecond after it shows up.

If you queue up for an Arena game, then be prepared to play the game. It's as simply as that. If you "forgot" then get kicked out, then it's completely your fault. Don't queue up if you are not ready to play.

DrakeStorm wrote: ↑06 September 2024, 19:45 If you want to win on time and not on skill, that is up to you, but I think it is pretty low. As long as someone is actively playing, I just don't think it is sportsmanlike to kick them, especially if the time level is set to slow. I could see it being frustrating if someone joined a fast arena game and then played slow, but if I set it to slow and a high level person hasn't set their preferences to 'I never want to play with slow', then they should be respectful of that in my opinion.

We see things differently here, you and I, though it wasn't always like this. I used to feel extremely annoyed and frustrated at people's eagerness to kick me as soon as my timer hit 0:00. I realised that it's much healthier to see the timer as a mechanic of the game, meaning that If I run out of time it means I failed to play the game properly.

There shouldn't be any mention of sportsmanship involved. You wouldn't call a player unsportsmanlike because they played their eagle and got an extra turn after the end of game has already been triggered. It's just something that the game allows. In chess you automatically lose if your timer hits 0. In football the team ahead in goals will try to take as much time as they can. Yet here we make a fuss just because BGA lets the opponent make a decision on whether you automatically lose or not. If the game was coded so that when 0:00 is reached you see the message: "You have 20 seconds to make a move or you'll forfeit the game", then everybody would just adapt and we wouldn't even have this debate.

It might sound pessimistic, impersonal, and outright inhuman. But it is healthier.

+ Just re-read the whole thing and when you say "If you want to win on time and not on skill" I think "Well time management is also a part of a player's skill".

kaikulimu wrote: ↑07 September 2024, 15:33

DrakeStorm wrote: ↑06 September 2024, 19:45 You assume that since I have expulsions and time penalties, I shouldn't be playing Arena mode. If you did a little more digging, you would see that 99% of my penalties is from waiting for an Arena game to start, I forget I'm waiting, and then someone kicks me out. Or the nicer people wait and I realize the game started but have a time penalty. The really nice people abandon the game, but I've come to not expect that. I am assuming you are the type of person who will hit the expel button 1 millisecond after it shows up.

If you queue up for an Arena game, then be prepared to play the game. It's as simply as that. If you "forgot" then get kicked out, then it's completely your fault. Don't queue up if you are not ready to play.

You quoted me stating a fact explaining why I personally have time penalties. I did not say it wasn't my fault. But since you spoke up, here is my answer to you:

"If you queue up for an Arena game, then be prepared to play the game."
Ok I queue up. I'm prepared.
[1 minute passes]
"It's as simply as that."
Wow it is easy, I'm going to even queue up another 2 games, since 3 is the maximum.
[3 more minutes pass]
"Don't queue up if you are not ready to play."
I'm ready. I want to play some fun competitive games here on BGA.
[10 more minutes pass]
Look at that dog riding a surfboard..
[You have been kicked out of the game]
"If you "forgot" then get kicked out, then it's completely your fault."
To be fair, it is really the dog's fault.

So it appears you mainly play Ark Nova which I think triggers pretty quickly. Also maybe you play at peak times, otherwise you would realize your statement while technically true, is not indicative of the Arena gaming experience for all players. Maybe you don't care, maybe you would still kick someone even after knowing they have been waiting 20 minutes for a game to start (but from your view it has only been a couple seconds since you clicked join queue).

I, however, think it is unsportsmanlike. On simpler games, I don't think it really matters, someone doesn't show in Bronze league for a game of Can't Stop, sure kick them right away. But if it is Elite League of Ark Nova against someone who is 700 ELO, I would give them extra time before considering to kick them, and I would probably just cancel game - I have almost no chance of beating them, and I don't want to get 'free' ELO points from a no show.

For the record, I think in 10 seasons of Arena (of 10+ different games) I have been kicked out for playing slow maybe twice. So this topic isn't really about me personally, though I have been kicked out numerous times due to a bad internet connection, and that sucks, so the topic is relevant to me in that regard.

calvaria wrote: ↑09 September 2024, 20:58 There shouldn't be any mention of sportsmanship involved. You wouldn't call a player unsportsmanlike because they played their eagle and got an extra turn after the end of game has already been triggered. It's just something that the game allows.

The problem is you are using an example of something that is part of the game (playing an eagle for an extra turn) and comparing it to something that is not part of the game, but part of the BGA infrastructure (the timer).

calvaria wrote: ↑09 September 2024, 20:58 + Just re-read the whole thing and when you say "If you want to win on time and not on skill" I think "Well time management is also a part of a player's skill".

I think the dis-connect is that I view Arena as a mode to play against competitive people not just random family friendly players. And I think the people who are super aggro about kicking someone out at first chance are viewing Arena as more of a Tournament. And not even a regular low key tournament, it's more like it is some high stakes $100,000 MtG Pro Tour or something.

If Arena is really supposed to be ultra serious, then they should not have any choice on the time. You should get kicked out immediately. But that is not the case, and I think it is because BGA is supposed to be a little more casual/friendly even in Arena mode.

I have no data to back it up, but I am assuming the players that boot someone as quick as possible do it because they were otherwise going to lose (if at end of game) or that want free ELO points (if done before game even starts).

Some people use the excuse that "well if I don't kick them out, then if later I run low on time, they will kick me out". I don't accept that as a valid reason. It is like "I am going to be a Jerk to you, because you might be a Jerk to me later" or even "Other people have been Jerks to me on this Site, so I am preemptively going to be a Jerk to you".

Or maybe top Ark Nova players just aren't sportsmanlike. I am a top TTR player, and I would never kick out another player who ran a few seconds over (and never is a bit of an exaggeration, because I have kicked a few people because they were trying to game the system and stall etc)

You would not kick someone for going a few seconds over time. Great. What about a few minutes? 5 minutes? 10 minutes?
Why set an arbitrary line when BGA already has a very clear one that both players agree to before the match.
If you use up more time than is allocated to you, then you are gaining an unfair advantage by being able to think about your turns longer than your opponent.

If I spent 10 minutes finding the best move every turn I am sure I could play much better than I currently do.
But when I queue for a real-time arena game I am aware of the fact that I don't have that luxury.

If anyone feels like they need more time then they should change their settings before they queue. It helps everyone get matched up with the right speed opponent for them.