Opinions on 3P Kingmaking

[Bogeyun]

No its not because most common king/prince making involves ecoline. Maximizing her score and gift free points can be avoided via passing, the same thing goes for 1st and 3rd placement funding an award while their own outcome has been decided. Null action is the best solution, you just need to have a real go at 3p arena to understand this.

Null action is the proper and only solution because it's consistent.

So as the player in 3rd place, you would not convert your multiple greeneries and king-make cultivator (giving P2 2nd place on the award, and the win) even though Player1 funded it assuming you would convert since you have a bunch of plant prod?

It's a yes or no question.

Read the OP's scenario, the 1st player has secured the cultivator, the orignal funding had very little consideration for the 3rd's end game plant production.

When you are in a king making situation and out of running for 1st and 2nd, the most consistent and safe way of dealing with it is to do nothing. I would gladly to hear some input from other past 3p highly ranked arena participants. From what I observed, it's the most fair way of avoiding king making, the lower ranked players on the other hand, often chosen to maximize their score during end game instead of avoiding king making scenarios. Some of the ecoline players would even go farther, intentionally convert greeneries away from their own cities to king make. Honestly, I don't think I saw any 600 Elo 3p matches ended up with someone king make. Once you grind the 3p arena, the top competitors all had an understanding, because they are often the top target for king makers.

I dont care about op's scenario, i'm asking about my scenario which you seem unable to answer a simple yes/no question about. You keep saying ppl don't king-make at high levels, but people are literally forced to king-make.

I played hundreds and hundreds of 3p games not that it's that relevant. The whole point is you can't avoid kingmaking, unless you are saying that passing and doing nothing is not kingmaking - which I'd just strongly disagree with (see: my scenario)

to give my POV: if I'm in in 1st place and lose to 2nd place because 3rd place decides to not use their multiple greeneries after a cultivator fund, i'd be annoyed and say they are kingmaking and not playing naturally, but you are advocating for 3rd place to 'do nothing' to influence the game, which makes no sense.

I've even had a scenario where to get 2nd place i had to 20 fund an award. Depending what I fund - a different player will get 1st place. Guess what: i get to decide who wins

[Bogeyun]

I had a game where I was in 3rd place in the final gen. 1st place player was dominating the entire game and I had throughout the game destroyed like 16 plants of his, stole his power, tile blocked his cities, and predatored him once or twice. He was in first for landlord and i was 2nd. The 2nd place player needed to take 2nd place landlord to win the game and would have but i played virus on him in the final gen. He cried I was kingmaking cause he would have won the game if I hadn't acted the last gen. I hate this idea of kingmaking because it only takes into consideration the final gens actions. Even though throughout the game i was practically kingmaking the 2nd place player he only considered my final gen actions as the ones that effected the winner. I just want to play the game and get my max score without politics coming into play.

yep, great point. Why does only final gen actions matter ? How you played makes total sense imo. Hell, even if your virus only affected 1st/2nd and you were gonna be in 3rd regardless, I'd personally still consider playing it to give the guy in 1st his potentially deserved win given how much hate he had to play against lol

[RoyalRook]

I dont care about op's scenario, i'm asking about my scenario which you seem unable to answer a simple yes/no question about.

I played hundreds and hundreds of 3p games not that it's that relevant.

I've even had a scenario where to get 2nd place i had to 20 fund an award. Depending what I fund - a different player will get 1st place. Guess what: i get to decide who wins

We are discussing in a thread so OP is kinda important for context. You also clearly needed to play more 3p and most importantly 3p arena in the future, because you dont seem to know the difference between securing a placement and king making: if you are still competing for a higher placement, it's not king making...duh.

I hate this idea of kingmaking because it only takes into consideration the final gens actions. Even though throughout the game i was practically kingmaking the 2nd place player he only considered my final gen actions as the ones that effected the winner. I just want to play the game and get my max score without politics coming into play.

It doesn't matter what happens in the game because of different tempo, you don't know how the game is going to develop. That's why only when the end game matters when considering king making. You were out of contention with no more placement advancement. Your pointless action decided the winner, you were a king maker. You should have not done that, the 2nd placement rightfully was very upset.

[xspuipuke]

I'm fine with any discussion on kingmaking in TfM in general, not just the proposed scenario in the OP. This is very interesting to follow. Thanks so much for actively contributing here, regardless of your stance on the matter.

[primrose1234]

Pass

So when the second player funds an award and you as third player are leading when he funds, are you allowed to defend your award?

Even further: he funds contractor for example, you are ahead by 1 and he has two cards left. You have 17 cards left in your hand and 100 MC, but if you play it out, you will be 1 VP short.
Do you have to pass now?

[RoyalRook]

Pass

So when the second player funds an award and you as third player are leading when he funds, are you allowed to defend your award?

Even further: he funds contractor for example, you are ahead by 1 and he has two cards left. You have 17 cards left in your hand and 100 MC, but if you play it out, you will be 1 VP short.
Do you have to pass now?

If you are in contention for higher placement it's not kingmaking, if you are out of contention for higher placement then yes you are king making.

[primrose1234]

So when are you in contestation? Making this decision is kingmaking. You are a far worse kingmaker than someone who just maxes his score.

[Jellby]

This applies to any game. If you put yourself in a situation where a 3rd player can decide whether or not you win, then it's a consequence of your play, do not blame the 3rd player for making that decision. Essentially you're letting the winner be decided by a coin flip. You can guess what the 3rd player would do, or you can try to influence it (by your actions during the game, if not by chat), but your fate is in their hands. Barring cheats like double accounts and hidden teams, that's the way it is. The blame is only on the game designer and on your "inability" to take a greater lead.

[Attica451]

It doesn't matter what happens in the game because of different tempo, you don't know how the game is going to develop. That's why only when the end game matters when considering king making. You were out of contention with no more placement advancement. Your pointless action decided the winner, you were a king maker. You should have not done that, the 2nd placement rightfully was very upset.

It's a 3p game and if you need 1 of those players to stop playing the game like he's been doing for the entire game then maybe you shouldn't win. Show me a sport where it's ok for players to just give up and throw games because they can no longer get first place. It's clear our definitions of kingmaking are different.

[FrankJones]

A player who funds an award in a 3-player game must realize the risks, right? And should take into account what the other players will do. Surely it's not accurate to fund awards on the expectation that any other player will just pass and not play cards or place greeneries, right?