Board Game Arena

Stevemax wrote: ↑26 July 2024, 14:15

stevesie sue wrote: ↑22 July 2024, 22:54 It's pretty clear now that people don't care about our feedback re: this change. My subscription runs out in January and I won't be renewing. Azul was the game I played most on here and now it's completely unenjoyable.

I totally agree with this. Can't believe that user feedback is being ignored in such a way.

There are less then 10 users vocally complaining about this, there's a roughly equal number vocally supporting it, and there are currently 8288 games of Azul being played right now.

They are listening to user feed back, and well over 8000 users are fine with or approve of the change. User feed back is not just "he who whines the loudest."

I haven't played Azul for a long time and now I find a silly confirm button!! where is the no undo allowed option??
Why on earth cant it be an option? Doesn't make sense to remove it, since some of us players actually like not to have to confirm each time. (at least you should have allowed an AutoConfirm for rest of game option)
It's such a nice fast game and sitting watching people shuffling back and forth trying out every possible combination is just sad.
Pip

Cile wrote: ↑27 July 2024, 02:22

Stevemax wrote: ↑26 July 2024, 14:15

stevesie sue wrote: ↑22 July 2024, 22:54 It's pretty clear now that people don't care about our feedback re: this change. My subscription runs out in January and I won't be renewing. Azul was the game I played most on here and now it's completely unenjoyable.

I totally agree with this. Can't believe that user feedback is being ignored in such a way.

There are less then 10 users vocally complaining about this, there's a roughly equal number vocally supporting it, and there are currently 8288 games of Azul being played right now.

They are listening to user feed back, and well over 8000 users are fine with or approve of the change. User feed back is not just "he who whines the loudest."

Funny how the 8000 silent people are thought to be on "their" side. Before the update, were they complaining about it?? Bring on the proof!... Of course they weren't. They are just silent. Stop saying they are supportive of the update. You don't know that for a fact. Revert back the change and they will still be silent.

The reality is that most people that are vocal and against the change are real Azul players who have a lot of games played. Two of the most vocal players supporting the change have respectively a total of 4 and 5 games played each!!! Makes you wonder why they are commenting on a game they don't even play themselves.

Wanna hear my opinion on the Olympic Equestrian Discipline? Hey, I did ride a horse once a few years back.

They just sounds like forum trolls.

Anyway, I proposed a solution that would make everyone happy but the Devs will not support it. In a private message, I could see they will not even try to understanding it. I doubt they even read it. They made up their mind and moved to something else

X_MIKE_X wrote: ↑28 July 2024, 03:35 Funny how the 8000 silent people are thought to be on "their" side. Before the update, were they complaining about it?? Bring on the proof!... Of course they weren't. They are just silent. Stop saying they are supportive of the update. You don't know that for a fact. Revert back the change and they will still be silent.

That's the point. And those who prefer the undo option were even able to choose it within the old system.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13887
1359 people support the suggestion to have undo available in every game.

If you want to present "user feedback" to the developer feel free to put a suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1467 as I don't currently see any related suggestions listed.
If you have exceed the 1359 people who support having and undo option I'm sure they'll be happy to listen to you.

If there are so few of us who want the Undo option disabled, why not let people choose to play or not play those games? If they want Undo, they can just decline the game. Let the free market work. Instead, this bumper lane approach for everyone slows down the game and removes skill as a factor. People can choose a tile, see how that choice influences the rest of the tiles, hit Undo, and do it over and over. Not only does it slow the game down significantly, it just ruins it.

If you allow table creators to disable Undo, it doesn't mean that those who want/need Undo can't play. They can just create their own table or turn down those that have Undo disabled. With this change, the game is unplayable for the 10 of us you claim are unhappy. I don't need to disable Undo for ME since I never use it anyhow. I want it disabled for my competitor so that it's a level playing field. If they have a small phone or big fingers or whatever, they can just not play with me.

The way you're doing removes choices for the players and says it's your way or the highway.

Cile wrote: ↑31 July 2024, 02:53 https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13887
1359 people support the suggestion to have undo available in every game.

If you want to present "user feedback" to the developer feel free to put a suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1467 as I don't currently see any related suggestions listed.
If you have exceed the 1359 people who support having and undo option I'm sure they'll be happy to listen to you.

No point in following Cile's suggestion to provide user feedback. I did so and was directed to this thread, so it's just a loop. They already know how we feel and they don't care. They don't care that people who want the Undo feature don't HAVE to accept games with those of us who don't. It's cheaters and low-skill players that win. The rest of us can jump off a bridge I guess.

stevesie sue wrote: ↑12 August 2024, 13:02 It's cheaters and low-skill players that win.

1. What cheating is happening during games? If someone is cheating you should report them.

2. How are "low-skill" players winning? If they beat you aren't you by definition "lower-skill"? It seems to me that a low skill player is more likely to rely on their opponent mis-clicking and being unable to undo in order to win.

For the record: You're ELO in Azul is 155, the top player is 926, and it's impossible to go below 100. Stop blaming the UI.

The way you're doing removes choices for the players and says it's your way or the highway.

That's literally what you're asking for. To be able to remove the choice of other players to have undo, and if they don't like it's "your way or the highway."

I do agree that it is too bad the suggestion got closed. In 21 hours you didn't get a single person who upvoted it. It would have been nice if it could have stayed there for about a week so we could see how many people actually want the option to disable Confirm, instead of having 5 people insisting they speak for everyone at the 8000+ tables currently running (looks like the change hasn't put much of dent in player numbers despite the people that are refusing to play it now.)

I'm not sure why I even bother replying as I'll be talking to a brick wall...

Cile wrote: ↑12 August 2024, 16:42 1. What cheating is happening during games? If someone is cheating you should report them.

Abusing the Undo Policy the same as cheating?

The BGA Undo Policy is clear: "We may allow a player to undo a move caused by a misclick, but we shouldn't allow a player to undo a bad move he plays consciously". So, undo are allowed for misclicks. When you use the undo button as a way to play, you are infringing the BGA policy. So yeah, a lot of players are cheating without even knowing. Players use undo all the time to change the play when they realise it wasn't the best play.

And when you tell them about the above BGA Undo Policy in game chat you get 3 types of replies (based on about 25 samples):
- "Oh sorry I didn't know." (mostly low ranking players)
- "That's stupid. If that's true they wouldn't allow undos." (mid ranking players)
- "Well, I don't care, this is the way I play. Feel free to red thumb me after the game." (higher/top ranking players)

so yeah... undo is most of the time not even used for misclicks.

Cile wrote: ↑12 August 2024, 16:42 That's literally what you're asking for. To be able to remove the choice of other players to have undo, and if they don't like it's "your way or the highway."

Again and again, you are just NOT listening to what we are asking. We want to be able to play with people that have the SAME preferences (or don't care). In NO WAY, we want to force players to play with no-undo.

Is this so hard to understand?

I totally agree. There are players who undo the move 4 times in the same turn to finally make the first move he made. It is horrifying. I am of the same opinion, taking away game options is always detrimental. Let the player who created the game choose the options and if someone doesn't like it, don't join. It couldn't be easier. I hope they re-enable the option to disable “undo” in the game. Besides, when you play in real life, it's something you can't do. If we play with someone who has analysis-paralysis even in Can't Stop, imagine the added bonus of being able to undo the gameplay. Horrifying. Please, BGA, re-enable that option. I don't care if I win or lose, I just want to play smoothly.