Make quitters pay more ELO and karma

[Romain672]

I'm not sure if you understood my suggestions, but one of them is to make the penalty even smaller when people miss games (0% or 1% through the game = 0 or 1 karma loss instead of 10 or 20.)

I proposed before to reduce by 50% the karma/elo loss of players quitting which haven't played a single turn.
The problem of that, is that some games give an enormous advantage to the playing going first or second. Or reveal information which can have a big impact to the winner.

Even with my proposition, if a player from their starting position have less than 25% chance to win in 2p game, then they should quit in purpose to maximise their elo. Your proposition is so much worst than that.

Thinking back of this idea, you could separate elo from players above 500+ and players under it, but then what happen in 3p games? If there is two 500+ and one 500-. And 500 is artificial.
You could not do it in arena, but arena seem the main problem since games start automatiquely.

Then why is it not programmed like this: if someone quits, the others get Elo equal to the position they have at this moment?

Who are winning at a certain moment?
In many games, it's hard to answer that question. Even in games where it still give a good idea (like Azul), I feel like it would be bad to incentive players to play in a way to maximise points right now in case someone left.

[nik592]

I have to quit a lot of games due to the 24/7 point of my work to be available for the customers. So if I am in a game and a customer calls, I have to leave.

This karma system is good, but not for people who can't say how much time they have until the next time they have to leave.

I have to play short games to get my karma up because I have no possibility to play with free leave.

It really does sound like perhaps you should look into turn-based play?

Others have children and have to do things and get time-outed.

Here it is only friendly for singles without a job...

I have 2 young children and a job, and I generally don't have to quit my games. But I mostly play turn-based...

Tournaments at 2 in the morning are a good example of this...

They're 2am for you, that doesn't mean they are 2am for people in other parts of the world. Again, consider turn-based.

[Mathew5000]

I have to quit a lot of games due to the 24/7 point of my work to be available for the customers. So if I am in a game and a customer calls, I have to leave.

Do you not realize that you are being rude to the other players, by starting a real-time game knowing there's a decent chance you won't finish it?

I don't understand why everyone has to accept ending the game. Just take the status of the moment and give them the point related to the time played.

For most games this "solution" is unworkable and even if it could be coded, would be unsatisfactory because your opponents are strategizing to be the winner at the end of the game, not to have the best status in the middle of the game in case it ends suddenly because you quit.

This karma system is good, but not for people who can't say how much time they have until the next time they have to leave.

As Nik said, you should not play real-time games if you're on call for work. Play turn-based instead.

Show some respect to the other players in your games. Joining a game constitutes a commitment to play it to the finish. If you break your commitment, don't gripe about being penalized.

[Gooorn]

Quitters are unfair and neglectful players, and BGA should fight against them mutch more.
Not only against last minute quitters but negletful ones too like:

I have to quit a lot of games due to the 24/7 point of my work to be available for the customers. So if I am in a game and a customer calls, I have to leave.

or those ones who choose real time table despite unstable internet connection (travelling on train in mountains for example)

[Exotic Dreams]

If someone has to leave, a game can be turned into a turn based game.

[Ceaseless]

If someone has to leave, a game can be turned into a turn based game.

Frankly, I would rather lose the game, even if I'd have otherwise won.

If someone is up front with me and tells me they have to go, assuming I don't think they're trying to pull an underhanded escape from a lost game, I tend to accept cancelling the game. No way am I touching turn-based though. I am firmly of the belief that games should be finished in one sitting, and so I play real-time. Others have different values and play turn-based, which is also fine. The expectations were clear from the start that the game was either real time or turn based and agreed to by both players. I have no intentions of agreeing to an unexpected shift from real time to turn based.

[Magicnerd]

I think people on here are generally way too salty about "quitters". The thing is, I rarely saw anyone quitting in all the games I played. Sure, when it happens it's annoying, but does it really happen THAT often that there has to be a merciless crusade against anyone who happens to not be able to finish a game?

I am fine with karma penalties for leavers, but imo they are already harsh enough.

But even more importantly, if you want to maintain a well-functioning and fair system for karma penalties, the technical side of things has to be in order. Sadly this is not the case on BGA, there's quite a large amount of technical issues and hiccups all across the website. I am personally at 73 karma now and I don't type this post out of spite or anything, as I am not distressed by this, but I think it's completely unfair.

Not a single one of all my "leaves" was by choice. All of them were in live games, caused by technical issues with the website, or interface issues. Believe it or not, it really is. Maybe it is because I play on phone and tablet a lot (only on stable Wifi), and the PWA mobile version of the app / site is just not that great. According to BGA, there were no technical issues at the time, so my karma is not reinstated. Probably a lot of salty people won't believe me, but I am 100% sure I am not the only one who has this issue.

So no, there should not be harsher penalties, at least not BEFORE the platform is stable enough to support such an unforgiving system. People should be a bit more forgiving and understanding in general to other players. It's not the strong suit here. I ran into much more impatient people than people who leave.

The other poster before me is on to something here, that a lot of people who play here seem to be of the "hardcore" type, who take things very seriously, and are... how shall I say it.. extremely dedicated to the games they play and the correct resolving of scores and such. Nothing wrong with that, but there also has to be breathing space for different kind of players without the first kind of player being absolutely dominant, resulting in an uptight way of establishing rules and the way the platform is being managed. Especially in non-arena ranked.

Have some faith in your fellow players, give them some credit. You will receive back the generosity in some way. Isn't that the whole idea of karma?

[Gooorn]

I think people on here are generally way too salty about "quitters". The thing is, I rarely saw anyone quitting in all the games I played. Sure, when it happens it's annoying, but does it really happen THAT often that there has to be a merciless crusade against anyone who happens to not be able to finish a game?

Players who FREQUENTLY (more than 5-10% of their games) not be able to (or want to) finish game deseve a "merciless crusade".
I suppose 50% karma penalty for first time and ban from real-time games if it happens again within 10 games.

[RazorOz]

I think people on here are generally way too salty about "quitters". The thing is, I rarely saw anyone quitting in all the games I played. Sure, when it happens it's annoying, but does it really happen THAT often that there has to be a merciless crusade against anyone who happens to not be able to finish a game?

I am fine with karma penalties for leavers, but imo they are already harsh enough.

But even more importantly, if you want to maintain a well-functioning and fair system for karma penalties, the technical side of things has to be in order. Sadly this is not the case on BGA, there's quite a large amount of technical issues and hiccups all across the website. I am personally at 73 karma now and I don't type this post out of spite or anything, as I am not distressed by this, but I think it's completely unfair.

Not a single one of all my "leaves" was by choice. All of them were in live games, caused by technical issues with the website, or interface issues. Believe it or not, it really is. Maybe it is because I play on phone and tablet a lot (only on stable Wifi), and the PWA mobile version of the app / site is just not that great. According to BGA, there were no technical issues at the time, so my karma is not reinstated. Probably a lot of salty people won't believe me, but I am 100% sure I am not the only one who has this issue.

So no, there should not be harsher penalties, at least not BEFORE the platform is stable enough to support such an unforgiving system. People should be a bit more forgiving and understanding in general to other players. It's not the strong suit here. I ran into much more impatient people than people who leave.

The other poster before me is on to something here, that a lot of people who play here seem to be of the "hardcore" type, who take things very seriously, and are... how shall I say it.. extremely dedicated to the games they play and the correct resolving of scores and such. Nothing wrong with that, but there also has to be breathing space for different kind of players without the first kind of player being absolutely dominant, resulting in an uptight way of establishing rules and the way the platform is being managed. Especially in non-arena ranked.

Have some faith in your fellow players, give them some credit. You will receive back the generosity in some way. Isn't that the whole idea of karma?

The problem was so bad at Heat that they literally changed the framework to how the system handles it to deal with it.

Also "not able to finish a game" is an inaccurate description of the majority of quits in my experience. Nearly every quit at Heat would fall into 1 of 2 categories, someone quits on the last turn or turn before when they knew they'd lost, and in many cases when the winner was already on the podium, anyone can play 2 minutes more to complete the game in this scenario, or in Arena you get the people who have joined the queue and then forgot about it so never turn up to begin with, but that's a different thing altogether to what's really being discussed here.

I would argue the karma penalties for quitting are nowhere near harsh enough. Someone can do the above, and then literally hop straight back in the Arena queue and play again when they've just wrecked the previous game they played 5 minutes ago. The vast majority of players I guarantee do not want to play with these players.

I can't really answer to the technical issues, obviously if someone is disconnected because of technical issues at BGA's end they shouldn't lose out, but in my experience this is not explaining the vast majority of quitters, because they're not all just conveniently getting technical issues on the last turn of the game when they know they've lost.

Sure, people here are likely to be hardcore gamers by the nature of the site, but in any element of life who appreciates having their time wasted? If we just played a game for an hour and you quit on the last turn because you couldn't be bothered to play 2 minutes more to complete the game it's clearly poor form. You're valuing your time more than my time, nobody would appreciate that.

[ChiefPointThief]

I would argue the karma penalties for quitting are nowhere near harsh enough.

I think people on here are generally way too salty about "quitters". The thing is, I rarely saw anyone quitting in all the games I played. Sure, when it happens it's annoying, but does it really happen THAT often that there has to be a merciless crusade against anyone who happens to not be able to finish a game?

Players who FREQUENTLY (more than 5-10% of their games) not be able to (or want to) finish game deseve a "merciless crusade".
I suppose 50% karma penalty for first time and ban from real-time games if it happens again within 10 games.

If they were to increase the penalty for quitting then they would also need to revise all the penalties. Like I've already stated the reduction in reputation as is for playing w/ multi accounts is already comparable to just missing the arena start (and like a previous poster mentioned this often is due to the bga site). I know of one player who was found guilty of playing with multi accounts in arena (3x in 3 months) and was able to build their "reputation" back to 100 which means that they have a better "reputation' then someone who just missed game start in arena once. This is equivalent to a hardcore criminal with 3 felonies being viewed as a more upstanding citizen than someone who just got a traffic ticket yesterday. A problem with the reputation system is the ability to build it back up so easily. Imo if you are found guilty of cheating then your reputation should remain at 0 for a year. Something along these lines could be applied to quitters but obviously not as harsh as that.

I have to quit a lot of games due to the 24/7 point of my work to be available for the customers. So if I am in a game and a customer calls, I have to leave.

This karma system is good, but not for people who can't say how much time they have until the next time they have to leave.

I have to play short games to get my karma up because I have no possibility to play with free leave.

You should only be playing short games anyway knowing your circumstances. That is what I do. I want to squeeze some games into my day but don't have a lot of time so I found short games to play. Your take on this is rather interesting lol. Another thing you should be doing is playing w/ friends who will be forgiving if you have to leave urgently. If you don't have any try to make some.

Also as nik pointed out turn based is an alternative.