TM is not a best 2Players game :( (nt)

[jaymc1130]

The mental gymnastics you guys will go through to try and justify yourselves is astounding.

The context is HU. To make it simple, if there’s any one card you can choose to always show up in your starter pack, everything else the same, what card would it be? For me it’s AI Central, and it’s not even close.

you are a 500 elo 60% wr player confidently trying to explain the game to someone 300 elo above you and he is the one who's doing mental gymnastics?

Yes because I am fairly confident that AI Central is the most broken card in the game HU. So you believe anyone who is higher rated than you is automatically correct?

Now that’s some 700 elo logic!

You’re missing the point mate.

We believe the data. We believe in the scientific method, we believe in the power of analytics. We believe that through rigorous study and discipline we can master elements of the game that aren’t necessarily obvious at first glance. We believe that putting in the work and effort leads to improvement and success.

The ratings can be an indicator that a person understands these things well, but sure, it’s not a perfect indicator for top 0.1% players.

However for players outside the top 0.1% it’s an extremely consistent indicator of what skillsets a player is lacking. In your case, basic ability to analyze and properly evaluate the value of cards both in general and in specific context.

This doesn’t have to remain the case, however. We’ve lead you to the drinking hole, whether or not you decide to take a sip is up to you and just how thirsty you happen to feel.

[HappyMeaI]

My point is that AI can be in some situations the best card in the deck, especially in engine v engine situations, however it is far from being consistently strong. It has very high highs and low lows and that's what the data shows you. That's why I wouldn't classify it as one of the strongest cards when there are cards like eco zone which are amazing pretty much regardless of game state.

Ofc it is subjective, but based on some common sense backed up by data it's possible to come to fairly accurate conclusions about card strength imo. I don't see how card x being ranked at y in one category means that's it's rank y in general. It's just a context for further discussion.

Someone makes a point "Card x is the best card in the game", I'm responding with "I don't agree, look how card x ranks in this category" and the answer to that is being ridiculed. I won't entertain "discussion" like this.

The mental gymnastics you guys will go through to try and justify yourselves is astounding.

The context is HU. To make it simple, if there’s any one card you can choose to always show up in your starter pack, everything else the same, what card would it be? For me it’s AI Central, and it’s not even close.

In 2p? Unquestionably earth cat. At least if I’m being honest with myself about which card leads to the highest expected win rate. On a personal level? I kinda always wanna see arctic algae, but then as a terraforming event wombo combo preference player I would want one of my favorite combo pieces. In a vacuum though I want Earth Cat and Ecozone. AI wouldn’t even crack my top 10, as good a card as it is.

Insulting the best players in the world and performing ridiculous “mental gymnastics” to justify doing so, tbh, is far more astounding.

If you want to improve the only person in your way is you, just FYI. Silly to hold yourself back and stay closed minded when you literally have the best players to ever play the game offering you advice, and they aren’t even getting paid for it…

Earth Cata would be my 2nd pick, but card draw > discount. I’ve had plenty of games of losing w earth cata gen 1 or beating someone who plays earth cata gen 1. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a single game hu where I’ve started w AI.

Ecozone is one of my fave cards too!

[HappyMeaI]

you are a 500 elo 60% wr player confidently trying to explain the game to someone 300 elo above you and he is the one who's doing mental gymnastics?

Yes because I am fairly confident that AI Central is the most broken card in the game HU. So you believe anyone who is higher rated than you is automatically correct?

Now that’s some 700 elo logic!

You’re missing the point mate.

We believe the data. We believe in the scientific method, we believe in the power of analytics. We believe that through rigorous study and discipline we can master elements of the game that aren’t necessarily obvious at first glance. We believe that putting in the work and effort leads to improvement and success.

The ratings can be an indicator that a person understands these things well, but sure, it’s not a perfect indicator for top 0.1% players.

However for players outside the top 0.1% it’s an extremely consistent indicator of what skillsets a player is lacking. In your case, basic ability to analyze and properly evaluate the value of cards both in general and in specific context.

This doesn’t have to remain the case, however. We’ve lead you to the drinking hole, whether or not you decide to take a sip is up to you and just how thirsty you happen to feel.

You guys don’t know how to properly extrapolate anything from the data. You use profile stats to determine win-rates for crying out loud.

[jaymc1130]

The mental gymnastics you guys will go through to try and justify yourselves is astounding.

The context is HU. To make it simple, if there’s any one card you can choose to always show up in your starter pack, everything else the same, what card would it be? For me it’s AI Central, and it’s not even close.

In 2p? Unquestionably earth cat. At least if I’m being honest with myself about which card leads to the highest expected win rate. On a personal level? I kinda always wanna see arctic algae, but then as a terraforming event wombo combo preference player I would want one of my favorite combo pieces. In a vacuum though I want Earth Cat and Ecozone. AI wouldn’t even crack my top 10, as good a card as it is.

Insulting the best players in the world and performing ridiculous “mental gymnastics” to justify doing so, tbh, is far more astounding.

If you want to improve the only person in your way is you, just FYI. Silly to hold yourself back and stay closed minded when you literally have the best players to ever play the game offering you advice, and they aren’t even getting paid for it…

Earth Cata would be my 2nd pick, but card draw > discount. I’ve had plenty of games of losing w earth cata gen 1 or beating someone who plays earth cata gen 1. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a single game hu where I’ve started w AI.

Ecozone is one of my fave cards too!

The math and the data doesn’t really support the conclusion that card draw > discounts, in fact it supports the opposite!

Even more than that it supports the conclusion that card draw + discounts > everything except the nut rush draws.

I think you would likely benefit from playing some stronger players more frequently. You’ll be much more likely to be punished for slight inaccuracies in your evaluation process and this leads to a greatly accelerated learning process.

Why don’t you try playing 100 games in a row against exclusively 650+ rated players on BGA and then do a review of all your 100 games for us? This would be a fantastically entertaining and educational endeavor!

[FrankJones]

Is Ecozone retally that good ???

Most of the time when I have it, I don't have a godD_am greenery !

[luboldo]

The mental gymnastics you guys will go through to try and justify yourselves is astounding.

The context is HU. To make it simple, if there’s any one card you can choose to always show up in your starter pack, everything else the same, what card would it be? For me it’s AI Central, and it’s not even close.

you are a 500 elo 60% wr player confidently trying to explain the game to someone 300 elo above you and he is the one who's doing mental gymnastics?

Yes because I am fairly confident that AI Central is the most broken card in the game HU. So you believe anyone who is higher rated than you is automatically correct?

Now that’s some 700 elo logic!

If someone 300 elo higher than me existed and told me in clear terms I am wrong about something regarding TfM, I would probably believe them, yes. And if I didn't, I would at least strongly reconsider.

[jaymc1130]

Is Ecozone retally that good ???

Most of the time when I have it, I don't have a godD_am greenery !

For a very long time it was the single card most highly correlated with win rate in Anthracites data. Don’t know if it still is, but it’s definitely one of the strongest combo pieces in the game. Just pair it once with Meat Industries and you’ll begin to worship at the altar of Ecozone. Promise.

[FrankJones]

Is Ecozone retally that good ???

Most of the time when I have it, I don't have a godD_am greenery !

For a very long time it was the single card most highly correlated with win rate in Anthracites data. Don’t know if it still is, but it’s definitely one of the strongest combo pieces in the game. Just pair it once with Meat Industries and you’ll begin to worship at the altar of Ecozone. Promise.

Meat industries !? What is this nonsense??

[goes to look up the card]
aaaahhhhh, Yes, I see.

[jaymc1130]

Is Ecozone retally that good ???

Most of the time when I have it, I don't have a godD_am greenery !

For a very long time it was the single card most highly correlated with win rate in Anthracites data. Don’t know if it still is, but it’s definitely one of the strongest combo pieces in the game. Just pair it once with Meat Industries and you’ll begin to worship at the altar of Ecozone. Promise.

Meat industries !? What is this nonsense??

[goes to look up the card]
aaaahhhhh, Yes, I see.

Meat Industries is definitely nonsense. Outperforms EC by massive margins with surprising regularity in terms of scoring efficiency. Seen games where it was net positive more than 100 cash, though this usually requires all expansions.

[Attica451]

Hi, I'd like to jump in and ask where I can find a link to this data set? You guys keep referencing stats and I'd like to see them too. Unless, it's for some invite only club.