Board Game Arena

ViolentSilence wrote: ↑03 March 2021, 21:07

whatshisbucket wrote: ↑03 March 2021, 19:21Sure, but it is most often the case that in the reports of such cheaters that the moderator reviewing the report comments that they agree that the accused user has been cheating in some way (indicating that they at least reviewed the evidence adequately). Not punishing cheaters in accordance with the moderation policy (which I think is a fairly good policy in this case) is a choice.

Unfortunately, we're not really talking about definitive cheating like you would be in Chess (an illegal move, sliding someone's piece off the board without them seeing), we're getting in to areas where it's much more subjective/behaviour based - did that player king make? Or did they make what they thought would be the best move for their own score which was perceived as king-making by a rival player?

whatshisbucket is talking of moderations past this investigative step, those that have been found 'guilty' yet have not been penalized appropriately according to the moderationpolicy.

ViolentSilence wrote: ↑03 March 2021, 21:07 I'm curious how robust the system is in all honesty - how easy is it for a moderator to track back through linked games or is it the case that they have to investigate the games individually? That would make it easy for persistent offenders to slide past.

You have the same game history access as moderators. Dunno why you think that makes it easier to 'slide past' though.
The replay system could be leagues better, but it serves.

ViolentSilence wrote: ↑03 March 2021, 21:07 It might also be that there are too few options for punishing players - if you can show two players repeatedly collude, could a mod apply a flag to those accounts that either prevents them playing together, automatically makes the game one in training mode, or simply highlights to any players thinking of joining the table that this the case with this mix of accounts? If a mod has some doubt about banning someone, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of alternatives.

The moderationpolicy calls for the permanent ban of any secondary accounts and the reset of all games for main accounts. Prior practice called for the permanent ban of main accounts for any reoffense. I believe that is sufficient and appropriate.

King making is not limited to ELO, I kept meeting the same 2 opponents in 3 player arena matches where one always lose to another before I red thumbed one of them.
Policing may catch casual cheaters but not determined ones. The scoring system itself should be robust enough to discourage king making. E.g. :
1. you get 100% score on first encounter, 50% on second encounter, 33% on third, etc.
2. ELO could drop below 0 if you keep losing, winning a low ELO player scores you nothing.
Maybe will post a complete scoring overhaul suggestion another day.

ViolentSilence wrote: ↑03 March 2021, 21:07
Personally, I still feel like there should be an effort to get rid of the ELO, and just leave the competitive ranking part within arena, and if necessary, have an alternate gamification effect for the casual part (maybe have a higher emphasis on karma?) if that has a negative effect on site traffic. Reward people for frequent plays, or good behaviour reports, or trying new games... It really feels like most of the user complaints in the forums can be traced back to ELO scores being treated as important

While ELO is not important to you and some others, it is important to many players. People play for different reasons, and removing one of the reasons is not a great idea. Most players do care about winning, they want to increase their skill to be able to beat stronger opponents, and they want that long-term skill improvement recognized in certain way. In short - some players do care about ELO, and BGA should cater to them as well.

In regards of Arena - not all people like the set of rules Arena forces, one size doesn't fit all. Saying "you can only be competitive when playing with these rules" is the biggest failure of Arena. I strongly disagree with "Arena is competitive and non-Arena is non-competitive" statement, this is simply not true. Games are usually competitive, unless they're cooperative.

In ideal world, BGA should provide more ways of comparing players, not less. ELO, win rate, season chanmpion Arena, Trophies, average score, tournaments, etc, More reasons to play, more ways to be the first at something.

As of cheating - I don't think the problem is as bad, that it needs a solution "right now", and games with 3+ opponents naturally tend to provide opportunities for situational kingmaking.

One thing I've noticed is this player shall not be named is trying to prevent detective work by exploiting the replay bug: if you start the game in realtime mode and turn the game into turnbase mode, then you can only replay up to the point when the game is set into turnbase. What is there to hide if you are clean?

Lincoln raised a major loophole in moderation policy which should be addressed. The fact that this player shall not be named has received multiple slaps on the wrist about his multiaccounting behaviors, but is allowed to keep his achievements and ranking, is ridiculous.

admitted wrote: ↑04 March 2021, 07:48 One thing I've noticed is this player shall not be named is trying to prevent detective work by exploiting the replay bug: if you start the game in realtime mode and turn the game into turnbase mode, then you can only replay up to the point when the game is set into turnbase. What is there to hide if you are clean?

Lincoln raised a major loophole in moderation policy which should be addressed. The fact that this player shall not be named has received multiple slaps on the wrist about his multiaccounting behaviors, but is allowed to keep his achievements and ranking, is ridiculous.

I agree. There is also a loophole that if somebody changed their real time table to turn base during a game, the replay function is disabled. This is also how the guy we mentioned avoid reports from others and I see him intentionally doing this instead of a coincidence, just sometimes he may forgot to do that and we got one or two chances to look into his games. I feel this bug should be fixed ASAP too.

News Feed: He is now in the BGA Hall of Fame, on 5th. place (XP points) )))
https://boardgamearena.com/leaderboard

another one, I thought he was banned... RomashSternschubser

https://boardgamearena.com/player?id=85752470

Jest Phulin wrote: ↑01 March 2021, 03:44

ojomojojojojo wrote: ↑01 March 2021, 01:41 ... in many games they always make a kingmaking move at the last move to let that player win.

Here's an example of 1 game I saw..

So why are you calling them out in the forums instead of using the "report this player" [kingmaking] functionality that already exists?
By listing table numbers, you are identifying the player, even though you don't specify their exact name in the post.

they would conduct to this message: If someone do a kingmaking move, give them a red thumb.
And no actual reporting

Katalinski has been ELO reset + a significant portion of achievements.