Board Game Arena

T72on1 wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 15:54

silentProtest wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 15:51

T72on1 wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 07:40 I'm quit esure gurus are chosen by most games played. Not only arena games, but also non-arena ones.

Maybe only in games with low activity or low players base.
In 7 wonders duel, Im as sure as one just playing can be, that is not the case, likely in Catan neither. Which will become a problem, IF K&C comes out for it, because either K&C never comes to arena or never leaves it.

That is not how I read the info in the faq about gurus.

Then again it's a Dutch translation, so some info might have gone lost there.

Your karma must be at least 90, and you must have been registered on Board Game Arena for at least one year.
The players who played the most (ranked) games in the last 30 days will automatically become gurus. (limited to 100 players)
Once a player is a guru for a specific game, they will keep their status for at least 1 month (unless their karma drops).

Indeed. But I think 'ranked' means 'no training mode'. But it can either be a regular game or arena.

I certainly have been a guru for games I (almost) never played in arena.

silentProtest wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 19:12 ...the gurus are chosen by most arena games played, as I understood...

For all games on BGA the players who play the most rated games are the guru voters. It does not matter if those games are in arena mode or not in arena mode - both modes count the same. I have often been a guru voter in certain games that I never play in arena mode because I do not like the settings of those games in arena mode.

For short, popular games like 7 Wonders Duel, the number of games a person would need to play to qualify as a guru is very high since there are some players who play an unbelievable amount of those games each month. But it doesn't depend on whether a person is playing in arena mode or playing outside of arena mode.

T72on1 wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 23:40 Indeed. But I think 'ranked' means 'no training mode'. But it can either be a regular game or arena.

I certainly have been a guru for games I (almost) never played in arena.

Good idea, maybe. Would be nice to have confirmation from people who know the source code.

Patrick of the Isles wrote: ↑01 August 2023, 08:48

silentProtest wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 19:12 ...the gurus are chosen by most arena games played, as I understood...

For all games on BGA the players who play the most rated games are the guru voters. It does not matter if those games are in arena mode or not in arena mode - both modes count the same. I have often been a guru voter in certain games that I never play in arena mode because I do not like the settings of those games in arena mode.

For short, popular games like 7 Wonders Duel, the number of games a person would need to play to qualify as a guru is very high since there are some players who play an unbelievable amount of those games each month. But it doesn't depend on whether a person is playing in arena mode or playing outside of arena mode.

Were those very often played games on the site ? - If not, you missed my point, read again
Also do you have anything that proofs that hypothesis? In the sense of something defenetive, like an official source?

PS: since its addressed to people who could fix/change that, and those people have the knowledge of how and when it works, it didnt seem relevant. But for the rest, think an "for/if the selection rule, exclusive arena players, applies" , this effect will materialise.

silentProtest wrote: ↑01 August 2023, 20:06

T72on1 wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 23:40 Indeed. But I think 'ranked' means 'no training mode'. But it can either be a regular game or arena.

I certainly have been a guru for games I (almost) never played in arena.

Good idea, maybe. Would be nice to have confirmation from people who know the source code.

Patrick of the Isles wrote: ↑01 August 2023, 08:48

silentProtest wrote: ↑27 July 2023, 19:12 ...the gurus are chosen by most arena games played, as I understood...

For all games on BGA the players who play the most rated games are the guru voters. It does not matter if those games are in arena mode or not in arena mode - both modes count the same. I have often been a guru voter in certain games that I never play in arena mode because I do not like the settings of those games in arena mode.

For short, popular games like 7 Wonders Duel, the number of games a person would need to play to qualify as a guru is very high since there are some players who play an unbelievable amount of those games each month. But it doesn't depend on whether a person is playing in arena mode or playing outside of arena mode.

Were those very often played games on the site ? - If not, you missed my point, read again
Also do you have anything that proofs that hypothesis? In the sense of something defenetive, like an official source?

PS: since its addressed to people who could fix/change that, and those people have the knowledge of how and when it works, it didnt seem relevant. But for the rest, think an "for/if the selection rule, exclusive arena players, applies" , this effect will materialise.

Nvm, Im wrong - it is NOT impossible to be guru in 7wd without playing arena (just EXTREMLY rare); maybe there is a substential weighting (additionaly to the natural weighting, aka different playtimes for simple vs complex/bigger versions of the game, only counting the amountOfGamesPlayed)

To whom it may concern:
playing arena IS NOT a factor - my hypothesis was wrong.
but simplicity of game version (therefore player base) and speed (as in time to finish 1 game) are - which also play into a point I made above about guru system somewhat sucking, and biasing some kinds of arena versions that have nothing to do with being the best competitive version of the game.

silentProtest wrote: ↑06 October 2023, 02:21 my hypothesis was wrong.

A number of people told you that you had misunderstood this part of the system but you refused to believe us. Now, several months later, you have realized that the explanations we gave are accurate.

With respect, this might be a good example of why it's wise for all of us to approach discussions with humility and be open to the possibility that others might understand a process better than we do.

Patrick of the Isles wrote: ↑06 October 2023, 05:27

silentProtest wrote: ↑06 October 2023, 02:21 my hypothesis was wrong.

So to recap this thread: you said some obviously untrue things. We told you the things you were saying were not true. You refused to believe us. Now, months later, you have come around to the reality that we all clearly stated a long time ago.

well I tested it with actual data, and confirming it on the same channel I was wrong - that is, in my mind, how stuff should work.

more details:
Things that I said and are still true and valid:
- guru system is flawed

- There are some games, that have expansions that make it a different game all together, as if they were different games.


Things I said that were true in outcome, which is logical because it was empirical data even beforehand, BUT the reason and futher, even worse, implications were not:
- "The problem at those games is that, as soon one mode of the game is played in arena, it most likely wont change..."

the factors, most likely affecting this static unchange in the simplest version are playtime (less time playing some version -> more games in same time) and player base (more people playing , more people playing intensely (without changing if the expnasion jumps are too big/complex, even if better in the end, balance and dynamic wise)... it misses the intention, in those described instances of a guru system, for either swithcing between the best/most popular/most fun (or whatever metric...) versions of a game or finding anything but the most popular version, which might very well be the vanila one.
gurus are ANY elo player with most played games with sign up date and karma cutoffs (maybe more restrictions I missed..)

btw, the true outcome I meant, is that the basic versions of that very different game (compared to expansion version) never(!) changes, even despite sizable and intense (competively) player bases.


Edit: made some fun about the use of "obviously"^^

Patrick of the Isles wrote: ↑06 October 2023, 05:27

silentProtest wrote: ↑06 October 2023, 02:21 my hypothesis was wrong.

So to recap this thread: you said some incorrect things about how the guru process works. A number of people told you the things you were saying weren't accurate but you refused to believe any of us. Now, several months later, you have realized that the explanations we gave are accurate.

With respect, this might be a good example of why it's wise for all of us to approach discussions with humility and be open to the possibility that others might understand a process better than we do.

Oh, since you edited your post....
Respect and humility are awesome ideas for communication and in general, 100% agree.

The thing here was , that it were just claims, without anything proofing (or at least, data drivenly, strongly indicating) it. I do not think believe is practical in such cases... Moreover my first post addressed the dev's (if I remember right) that know that as fact, knowing the code, and was written as a conditional - IF this works like that THEN this problems present, under those conditions (not that there are a ton of other problems, they have to retune/fix the guru system for)