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robinzig wrote: ↑08 September 2023, 22:46 We can argue about the rights and wrongs of many things (I am sympathetic with the viewpoint that NATO shouldn't have been so quick to expand to the ex-Soviet territories - although mostly Putin uses this as an excuse when what he really hates is countries that he thinks of as close to, if not even "really part of" Russia in his view, experiencing real democracy), but in the only aspect that really matters here - certainly the only one that matters right now to the people of Ukraine - namely which country starting bombing and otherwise military assaulting a peaceful neighbour who posed zero military threat to it - this is 100% a case of "Russia = Bad, Ukraine = Good". Yes history is complicated, so are human motivations, but some things, or at least the most important aspects of them, really are as black and white as that.

Pro-tip, when it comes to bad vs good, the folks giving standing ovations to Nazis are usually bad
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/2 ... parliament

the most important aspects of them, really are as black and white as that.

SO true. Try seeing in living Color.... to differentiate otherwise identical objects.

NickWitucki wrote: ↑28 September 2023, 10:40

robinzig wrote: ↑08 September 2023, 22:46 We can argue about the rights and wrongs of many things (I am sympathetic with the viewpoint that NATO shouldn't have been so quick to expand to the ex-Soviet territories - although mostly Putin uses this as an excuse when what he really hates is countries that he thinks of as close to, if not even "really part of" Russia in his view, experiencing real democracy), but in the only aspect that really matters here - certainly the only one that matters right now to the people of Ukraine - namely which country starting bombing and otherwise military assaulting a peaceful neighbour who posed zero military threat to it - this is 100% a case of "Russia = Bad, Ukraine = Good". Yes history is complicated, so are human motivations, but some things, or at least the most important aspects of them, really are as black and white as that.

Pro-tip, when it comes to bad vs good, the folks giving standing ovations to Nazis are usually bad
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/2 ... parliament

Sure, that was outrageous and embarassing. I make no attempt to defend it.

But if you were to stop parrotting Russian propaganda ask yourselves honestly which of Putin's Russia and Ukraine are closer to the behaviour of the Nazis in WWII, regarding the situation since February 2022, and you will clearly see the answer is not Ukraine.

robinzig wrote: ↑28 September 2023, 21:03

NickWitucki wrote: ↑28 September 2023, 10:40

robinzig wrote: ↑08 September 2023, 22:46 We can argue about the rights and wrongs of many things (I am sympathetic with the viewpoint that NATO shouldn't have been so quick to expand to the ex-Soviet territories - although mostly Putin uses this as an excuse when what he really hates is countries that he thinks of as close to, if not even "really part of" Russia in his view, experiencing real democracy), but in the only aspect that really matters here - certainly the only one that matters right now to the people of Ukraine - namely which country starting bombing and otherwise military assaulting a peaceful neighbour who posed zero military threat to it - this is 100% a case of "Russia = Bad, Ukraine = Good". Yes history is complicated, so are human motivations, but some things, or at least the most important aspects of them, really are as black and white as that.

Pro-tip, when it comes to bad vs good, the folks giving standing ovations to Nazis are usually bad
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/2 ... parliament

Sure, that was outrageous and embarassing. I make no attempt to defend it.

But if you were to stop parrotting Russian propaganda ask yourselves honestly which of Putin's Russia and Ukraine are closer to the behaviour of the Nazis in WWII, regarding the situation since February 2022, and you will clearly see the answer is not Ukraine.

The only ones acting like WW2 Nazis are the Neocons of Washington DC, hell bent on fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian so that their Defense Contractor donors can reap huge profits from weapon sales https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-21/ ... /101843752, their energy industry donors can reap huge profits supplying Europe with natural gas at a premium https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... %20experts, and their financial sector donors can reap huge profits from spikes in food prices https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... rice-surge.

As a bonus, the Ukrainian battlefields are a perfect testing laboratory for US weapons to better prepare them for a hopefully-not-inevitable showdown with China https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/15/politics ... index.html.

NickWitucki wrote: ↑03 October 2023, 00:44

robinzig wrote: ↑28 September 2023, 21:03

NickWitucki wrote: ↑28 September 2023, 10:40

Pro-tip, when it comes to bad vs good, the folks giving standing ovations to Nazis are usually bad
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/2 ... parliament

Sure, that was outrageous and embarassing. I make no attempt to defend it.

But if you were to stop parrotting Russian propaganda ask yourselves honestly which of Putin's Russia and Ukraine are closer to the behaviour of the Nazis in WWII, regarding the situation since February 2022, and you will clearly see the answer is not Ukraine.

The only ones acting like WW2 Nazis are the Neocons of Washington DC, hell bent on fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian so that their Defense Contractor donors can reap huge profits from weapon sales https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-21/ ... /101843752, their energy industry donors can reap huge profits supplying Europe with natural gas at a premium https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... %20experts, and their financial sector donors can reap huge profits from spikes in food prices https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... rice-surge.

As a bonus, the Ukrainian battlefields are a perfect testing laboratory for US weapons to better prepare them for a hopefully-not-inevitable showdown with China https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/15/politics ... index.html.

You are completely disregarding anything Russia related. Wagner 2nd in command literally had neo-nazi tattoos. Russians themselves show VERY fascist tendencies. There have been a LOT of atrocities performed by Russians, war crimes, crimes against humanity in general. And you paint it as if we should just let Russians get what they want, otherwise someone else might also benefit from this.

You should still support Ukraine, but also to hold the people you mentioned, accountable. I guess it's easy to judge the situation from the other side of the world. I can assure you, whatever information reaches you, it seems to be horribly skewed. Usually if someone so clearly spews Putin's troll farm talking points, I would already just ignore and move on.

Stroom wrote: ↑03 October 2023, 05:30

NickWitucki wrote: ↑03 October 2023, 00:44

robinzig wrote: ↑28 September 2023, 21:03

Sure, that was outrageous and embarassing. I make no attempt to defend it.

But if you were to stop parrotting Russian propaganda ask yourselves honestly which of Putin's Russia and Ukraine are closer to the behaviour of the Nazis in WWII, regarding the situation since February 2022, and you will clearly see the answer is not Ukraine.

The only ones acting like WW2 Nazis are the Neocons of Washington DC, hell bent on fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian so that their Defense Contractor donors can reap huge profits from weapon sales https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-21/ ... /101843752, their energy industry donors can reap huge profits supplying Europe with natural gas at a premium https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... %20experts, and their financial sector donors can reap huge profits from spikes in food prices https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... rice-surge.

As a bonus, the Ukrainian battlefields are a perfect testing laboratory for US weapons to better prepare them for a hopefully-not-inevitable showdown with China https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/15/politics ... index.html.

You are completely disregarding anything Russia related. Wagner 2nd in command literally had neo-nazi tattoos. Russians themselves show VERY fascist tendencies. There have been a LOT of atrocities performed by Russians, war crimes, crimes against humanity in general. And you paint it as if we should just let Russians get what they want, otherwise someone else might also benefit from this.

You should still support Ukraine, but also to hold the people you mentioned, accountable. I guess it's easy to judge the situation from the other side of the world. I can assure you, whatever information reaches you, it seems to be horribly skewed. Usually if someone so clearly spews Putin's troll farm talking points, I would already just ignore and move on.

I don't need to mention anything Russia related because news about their misdeeds is already plastered all over the mainstream media, including the four outlets I linked to, ABC Australia, the Guardian, CNN, and Business Insider. I will agree that most of the information reaching me is horribly skewed, though. Skewed in favor of promoting a never ending war in Ukraine and sending an unlimited supply of weapons there with zero accountability. NeoNazis in Ukraine might be few in number, but it only takes a few heavily armed Nazis to absolutely wreck a country.

Not sure what people in your country our saying about the war, but in mine I find it highly suspicious that the same folks who are the biggest promoters of the US continuing to arm Ukraine were also the biggest supporters of the American invasion of Iraq.

Bill Kristol on Iraq https://carnegieendowment.org/2002/01/2 ... aq-pub-940
Bill Kristol on Ukraine https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/ ... 7105653168
Jonah Goldberg on Iraq https://www.latimes.com/news/la-oe-gold ... olumn.html
Jonah Goldberg on Ukraine https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... h-goldberg
Max Boot on Iraq https://newsarchive.berkeley.edu/news/b ... ript.shtml
Max Boot on Ukraine https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... nvestment/

These folks and everyone else running Washington DC says that this will end differently than Iraq (or Libya, or Syria), but forgive me for my skepticism.

The best way to support Ukraine is to end the war before it ends up like those places, like Zelensky wanted to do in 2022 before the West scuttled the deal https://europeanconservative.com/articl ... eace-deal/

There is link to video you shared with a note: "An early agreement was reached that called for Russian troops to withdraw to Feb 23 positions and in return, Ukraine would never join NATO. Russian troops never met these commitments." Stop spreading propaganda and fake news.

Nick is here in these forums ONLY to spread Russian propaganda and fake news. However, it's nice that Russia is taking an interest in BGA.

Nick is here in these forums ONLY to spread Russian propaganda and fake news.

Aren't we all. Don't you know - It's all the rage! the entire Globe is full of it.

NickWitucki wrote: ↑06 October 2023, 11:22 ...
NeoNazis in Ukraine might be few in number, but it only takes a few heavily armed Nazis to absolutely wreck a country.
...

The best way to support Ukraine is to end the war before it ends up like those places, like Zelensky wanted to do in 2022 before the West scuttled the deal https://europeanconservative.com/articl ... eace-deal/

This is just blatant Russian propaganda. Demagogy. You have quite many neonazis in USA too. Likely some in every country. But this is completely irrelevant in Ukraine's current situation. There was never a big issue with neonazis. It was a pointless excuse for Putin to start the war, while his actual reason was plain old imperialism.

The only way for the war to end is if Russia gets out and stays out. Giving them any of Ukraine's land would be appeasement. And that did not work with Hitler before WW II.