Board Game Arena

So I've been using BGA to primarily play games with my partner for two years now. Before joining BGA we regularly used Brettspielwelt (which we used for about four years), and really only switched to BGA because the Brettspielwelt system was very old, and I was having troubles getting the application to run on my computer. We started playing games online because we were long distance, and it is a great way to connect. We would usually video chat while we did so. Now, we also often play with college friends at the same time as us - a great way to reconnect while we can still both play with friends that live far away.

Setting up the system like this is turning BGA from being free to having a paywall now for the portion of the userbase who likes to play with people they live with. I suppose they calculated this and thinks it might be worth the risk of losing these people - but for all those who are saying 'just pay premium for a premium feature' - for players like me basically all of BGA is a premium feature now. If you're having a hard time understanding where people are coming from with this, just imagine if all of BGA was made premium. I would assume that this portion of the userbase is being targeted because it is a smaller chunk - if we all stop using BGA there hopefully won't be too much of a decline of members to play with for the premium players (while if you made it pay to play for everyone, there wouldn't be many people left online to play with). Really if you're hurting for cash, some small time advertising for non-premium members would probably be much better than a paywall like this.

sourisdudesert wrote:

Jbrom03 wrote:Is this a permanent decision?

Well... playing on BGA from the same location is not something common as you can play with the real physical board game. It makes sense to make it a Premium feature, so that we can make sure that practicaly no one would use BGA to avoid buying the real physical game.

I feel like this is often the opposite... there are so many games I've played on BGA (or brettspielwelt) first, and then bought in person. And I will still play many of these online too - whether it be because I'd like to play with friends who live farther away as well, or if we're just feeling cozy and would like to play cuddled up on our laptops instead of at the table. Basically that's how I found this out - we just wanted to play a game of Koi-koi while being cozy tonight. (The cards for koi-koi are like $4 on amazon might I add, they aren't a huge cost deterrent. And while I use them way more in person, I have really enjoyed playing it on BGA as well. I also probably wouldn't have ever gotten any in the first place if I hadn't learned to play the game on BGA. I'm even on the mailing list for the artist who designed the cards for the BGA version - I'm buying a deck as soon as they're printed again.)

But basically games I've bought after I've played them: Koi-koi, Celestia, Hive, Love Letter. I also searched endlessly to find a version of Secret Moon to buy without luck (maybe I should check again now?) when that first came out on here. I plan on buying Seasons as well, when I find some friends who would play it with me as well (it is one of the games on here my partner dislikes, so I primarily play it with other players - which is something I probably won't do anymore, if the 'playing from the same IP = premium' persists.
(Also I've bought Carcassonne, 7 Wonders, and Catan after playing them on Brettspielwelt.)

sourisdudesert wrote: In addition, we introduced recently the "Hotseat mode", a new Premium feature that allow you to play with your friends from the same screen. But it makes no sense to have Hotseat as a Premium feature if you can just open 2 browsers and play from the same screen for free.

I agree, it probably makes no sense (although it is against your policies to do so, and not against your policies to play as two separate people). This switch to 'same IP = premium' was obviously only instated for the hotseat feature (which people can still very easily get around with a VPN, I know so many people who have them already for watching Netflix from different countries; if Netflix, a huge corporation, can't stop that, I doubt most websites can). We could easily also get around this with a VPN, but I am unfortunately someone who follows policy. You might want to update yours however, as it still states "This is authorized to play at the same table from the same IP (internet address).

sourisdudesert wrote: Finally, playing from the same location has been used by many players to cheat the ranking system by playing against themselves. By making this a premium feature we strongly limit this.

So there is at least 3 good reasons to take this decision

So just make games with players using the same IP address non-ELO ranked. I highly doubt people would have a problem with this, as that isn't what these players are trying to do. They just want to play games with people they're close to.

Also, if you are worried about people cheating - they can still cheat now, they just have to pay premium to cheat (or use a VPN, which come on they're cheaters already?). Or if they're playing with people they know IRL, and are videochatting them, like I did many many times I played on BGA or Brettspielwelt, it is just as easy to cheat - and you would have no way of knowing it. So you're putting a paywall up for BGA supporters (I've encouraged sooo many friends to use BGA!! If this stays this way it'll be the opposite.) who happen to live in the same place, just be honest that BGA isn't a free site anymore and stop making excuses.

In the past I had honestly contemplated getting a premium account at times - for some of the premium features that are actually good! But when you throw in a paywall to small portion of your userbase for no good reason - it's not a good reason to support you.

Anyways, I'm off to Brettspielwelt now (Which looks like it's gotten a update since I last played back in 2015, so it won't be slow anymore! Which is why I switched here in the first place.), which I'll either stay with until this is fixed, or permanently if it must be so.

N_Faker wrote:Automatically disabling ELO whenever there are 'same location' players, seemed to be the more sensible choice. Premium players will still be able to do it with this change.

I agree that this is a much more sensible solution. To me the decision to make this a premium feature was hasty and only aimed at increasing your amount of income. I also can no longer play with friends because we play within a range that is considered the 'same location'. If this does not change we will no longer be using this site either.

Adding my voice to the disappointment and displeasure. You are completely ignoring the portion of your clientele comprised of couples who use the site to play games with friends who live far away. People don't mind paying a little extra for enhanced features, but we object to this because it is basically an extra charge for including your spouse or your roommate in your online game nights. There has to have been a better way to raise money for the site (heck, just do a donation drive; I'd have given to it), and I find the dismissive responses from administrators to be incredibly off-putting. You may be losing me as a regular player if this continues.

sourisdudesert wrote:

Royii wrote:Agree about it, better to get premium only for few games, extensions of all games and options of the website but bad idea to delete the possibility of players to play with their friends, co-worker and more...

Again, there is no way to say the idea is "good" or "bad" without looking at the actual numbers (total players / premium players), and there is no way to look at the numbers without implementing the feature.

In 6-12 months we will be able to tell you if the idea was good or bad.

There are quite a lot of people explaining why this was a bad idea: with pretty much no warning, BGA took away a free feature that many of its users had been relying on (pretty much everyone who plays with a spouse or roommate) and made it pay-to-play. If you don't want us as part of your user base, that's your prerogative, but it's not going to earn you any money or any good will from us.

titratetheaciddemon wrote:

sourisdudesert wrote:

Royii wrote:Agree about it, better to get premium only for few games, extensions of all games and options of the website but bad idea to delete the possibility of players to play with their friends, co-worker and more...

Again, there is no way to say the idea is "good" or "bad" without looking at the actual numbers (total players / premium players), and there is no way to look at the numbers without implementing the feature.

In 6-12 months we will be able to tell you if the idea was good or bad.

There are quite a lot of people explaining why this was a bad idea: with pretty much no warning, BGA took away a free feature that many of its users had been relying on (pretty much everyone who plays with a spouse or roommate) and made it pay-to-play. If you don't want us as part of your user base, that's your prerogative, but it's not going to earn you any money or any good will from us.

Hear hear!

Hello everyone,

Playing on BGA from the same location is not something common as you can play with the real physical board game. We never imagine that BGA could be used to play with someone next to you, as we designed this service to allow players to find opponents to play. It totally makes sense to make it a Premium feature, so that we can make sure that practically no one would use BGA to avoid buying the real physical game.

In addition, we introduced recently the "Hotseat mode", a new Premium feature that allow you to play with your friends from the same screen. But it makes no sense to have Hotseat as a Premium feature if you can just open 2 browsers and play from the same screen for free.

Finally, playing from the same location has been used by many players to cheat the ranking system by playing against themselves. By making this a premium feature we strongly limit this.

So there is at least 3 good reasons to take this decision.

sourisdudesert wrote:Hello everyone,

Playing on BGA from the same location is not something common as you can play with the real physical board game...

Ehm, is this why the term Déjà vu comes from French? Is it some speciality there? Because nothing says "I don't listen to your complaints" like reposting the same post after eight pages of arguments. I try to never wish harm to anybody, but I do hope that this decision will mean less users (or at least slower growth) and less money, since you seem to be listening to the numbers.

But I fear we're in minority guys, there are two thousands of players online and only a few of us are here complaining...you know I'd love to throw some money at arena so it can continue to function or the site admin can buy a fancy new car or whatever, but you're making this way harder with your attitude.

Well, there is no reason why not posting the same arguments because:
_ there are still valid, and
_ some players who post here may not have read them.

But at the end, the decision to keep this or to remove this will not be taken depending on this forum thread: it will only be taken depending on numbers (audience lost vs additional premium accounts). At now we are satisfied by these numbers, so there is very few chance that we move back on this.

By the way: I've no fancy new car, and if I wanted one I would have keep my previous job instead of working on BGA!

I don't know if it was your intention, sourisdudesert, but I've found your responses in this thread rude and dismissive.

I'm very new here. I was introduced by a coworker and found this thread after I couldn't join her game. It seems like it might be "sticky", too - I can't join even from my phone's cellular connection. If that is how it works and wasn't just some oddity with my phone then that means I'm not going to be able to play with her even when we leave work.

That really sucks, but seeing your responses here and reading that this "feature" came as a surprise doesn't give me much confidence in the site. It's soured an otherwise neat experience.

Good luck with your numbers.

Ayzel wrote:I play on BGA primarily with my friends who are scattered across the country (and other countries). I play with strangers about 10% of the time, and don't enjoy it nearly as much. Since several of my gaming friends are couples, what used to be a free game night, suddenly becomes more complicated. And I can't invite new friends to play and try it out, if they are a couple.

I'm sad to stop supporting BGA and playing with friends here, but this change takes away most of the appeal of the service.

-(a former subscribing member)

I'm in the exact same situation, except I'm relatively new. I'd been considering subscribing to get access to Premium games, as I've been growing a weekly board game group that has been playing here and it's only just started to pick up speed... except, now, with this change that idea is dead. It's a lot to ask of people who were happy to sit around and play games together on Monday nights, only to find out now that some of them have to pay but *only* the ones who are joining from the same location.

What a disappointment. I can't promote this service to others anymore and our weekly games will now move to another venue.