Board Game Arena

BlackHatGuy wrote: ↑15 July 2025, 16:24 When we say "X card is better than Y card" what we're really saying is "X card will win you more games".

That's what "better" means.

How do we know which players are better at winning games? ELO. That's what ELO *is*.

So yeah. When the question is "which card is better". And a 500 ELO and 800 ELO player have different opinions, the 800 ELO player is almost always going to be right. Because if they were wrong about which cards are best for winning games, they wouldn't have made it to 800 in the first place.

Even though I agree to give the supposedly more experienced player the benefit of the doubt, this is a logical fallacy at best. There are ways to game the system to achieve 800 ELO without even knowing the game too well. Plus, any such argument by default is an argument from authority and therefore no actual argument at all.

Discarding data though like the user in question does ... also does not support any of their claims. Can't deny data.

primrose1234 wrote: ↑16 July 2025, 11:28

RoyalRook wrote: ↑13 July 2025, 21:42 P.s. Micro Mill and Microorganisms are pretty legit on Elysium, check out my in progress game 3 with anthracite, both cards may get played. I already played zero day Micro Mill. Mystic Rook baby, although no way I am doing unholy trinity against anthracite.

I think in general that Micro Mills deserves a little bit more love. Happy to see that it worked in your game! The ratio is 6 cash / 1 Heat prod which is the same for import of advanced GHG without rebates. Yet i see an unrebated advanced GHG more often than micromills. It can support a rush strategy if you have some money to spare.
Also, if you compare GHG factory to carbonate processing: Its 5 cash / heat prod difference, so if you just have RO, micro mills does the same.

Microorganisms is still a lot stronger i think, also for the science tag.

Interesting. I too have seen people buy and play advanced GHG at full price, though I am not sure why. In a 2-player game, its appeal to me is the potential for heavy discounts. Sometimes it ends up being a free card. I'm not generally playing an earth space event at full price unless it's a much better card than advanced GHG, and even then, feel as though it's not ideal.

I'm guessing the objection to micro-mills is the same reasoning for why I dislike adapted lichen. Producing 1 heat or 1 plant takes a long time to amount to anything.

Micro Mill, Microorganisms, and cards like adv ghg carries an additional 10 vp for 8 MC rider premium in Elysium. They are trashy like the Mosses in Tharsis. Mosses glitter like gold on Elysium as well. Cards value dramatically differently on different map. For example, urbanized city is pretty cool on Tharsis, super meh on Elysium. Commercial District literally vomit rainbow and sunshine on Elysium, while very situational on Tharsis.

FrankJones wrote: ↑16 July 2025, 22:20

primrose1234 wrote: ↑16 July 2025, 11:28

RoyalRook wrote: ↑13 July 2025, 21:42 P.s. Micro Mill and Microorganisms are pretty legit on Elysium, check out my in progress game 3 with anthracite, both cards may get played. I already played zero day Micro Mill. Mystic Rook baby, although no way I am doing unholy trinity against anthracite.

I think in general that Micro Mills deserves a little bit more love. Happy to see that it worked in your game! The ratio is 6 cash / 1 Heat prod which is the same for import of advanced GHG without rebates. Yet i see an unrebated advanced GHG more often than micromills. It can support a rush strategy if you have some money to spare.
Also, if you compare GHG factory to carbonate processing: Its 5 cash / heat prod difference, so if you just have RO, micro mills does the same.

Microorganisms is still a lot stronger i think, also for the science tag.

Interesting. I too have seen people buy and play advanced GHG at full price, though I am not sure why. In a 2-player game, its appeal to me is the potential for heavy discounts. Sometimes it ends up being a free card. I'm not generally playing an earth space event at full price unless it's a much better card than advanced GHG, and even then, feel as though it's not ideal.

I'm guessing the objection to micro-mills is the same reasoning for why I dislike adapted lichen. Producing 1 heat or 1 plant takes a long time to amount to anything.

1 plant prod is quite valuable as it can set up convertions with events like lc or hydrogen. When it comes to heat it is useful to think about it in terms of thresholds (2, 4, 8 but mainly 4)

xspuipuke wrote: ↑16 July 2025, 11:48

BlackHatGuy wrote: ↑15 July 2025, 16:24 When we say "X card is better than Y card" what we're really saying is "X card will win you more games".

That's what "better" means.

How do we know which players are better at winning games? ELO. That's what ELO *is*.

So yeah. When the question is "which card is better". And a 500 ELO and 800 ELO player have different opinions, the 800 ELO player is almost always going to be right. Because if they were wrong about which cards are best for winning games, they wouldn't have made it to 800 in the first place.

Even though I agree to give the supposedly more experienced player the benefit of the doubt, this is a logical fallacy at best. There are ways to game the system to achieve 800 ELO without even knowing the game too well. Plus, any such argument by default is an argument from authority and therefore no actual argument at all.

Discarding data though like the user in question does ... also does not support any of their claims. Can't deny data.

It's not really about the data but the general missunderstanding of how this game is played at a decent level. This missunderstanding leads to notorius overestimation of mainly expensive prod cards but also strong but clunky cards like ai

The one plant prod valuation is really interesting. Mid level over value it, high level players avoid it but at the very top level it comes back to highly valued. For non corp era, the single plant prod unlock Tharsis on Tharsis to the very top of the tier list for top players. It's all elo depending essentially, that's how I play it these days, not general tier list but according to my opponents or specific players I am playing against.

For aspirin for example, you can't let him get cash advantage on you and let him do his aggressive rush technique. So playing AI is super dangerous, you take cards like big asteroid and let him brick Mars U instead, knowing he may pass it back or even just toss it after the draft.

Just don’t pass Aspirin any cards. That’s the trick. Eat them, burn them, tear them in two. Seems like the best approach tbh.

jaymc1130 wrote: ↑19 July 2025, 22:02 Just don’t pass Aspirin any cards. That’s the trick. Eat them, burn them, tear them in two. Seems like the best approach tbh.

He probably will try to play only 18 cards against me the whole game. He is too scared to play against me anyway, petrified to play any cards

Yeah it's really cool how disciplined some players are, I am more tempo based.

HappyMeaI wrote: ↑13 July 2025, 02:32 Earth Cata would be my 2nd pick, but card draw > discount. I’ve had plenty of games of losing w earth cata gen 1 or beating someone who plays earth cata gen 1. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a single game hu where I’ve started w AI.

Ecozone is one of my fave cards too!

My latest game against Rook features AI in the opener (and played gen 2) being obliterated, highlighting the weaknesses of the card.

https://boardgamearena.com/archive/repl ... s=96014413;

Corvus Mortis wrote: ↑04 August 2025, 17:34

HappyMeaI wrote: ↑13 July 2025, 02:32 Earth Cata would be my 2nd pick, but card draw > discount. I’ve had plenty of games of losing w earth cata gen 1 or beating someone who plays earth cata gen 1. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a single game hu where I’ve started w AI.

Ecozone is one of my fave cards too!

My latest game against Rook features AI in the opener (and played gen 2) being obliterated, highlighting the weaknesses of the card.

https://boardgamearena.com/archive/repl ... s=96014413;

Oh, come on!

The AI Central player had a horrible hand. You had a tremendous opening hand.

And, what that game proves is what I said earlier in this thread - that AI central is not good if you play a series of terrible science cards to get the card into play.

I mean ... an utterly useless physics complex, a basically useless medical lab, and, a bottom tier corporation (or so I have been told; I think Thorgate is okay) to have the energy production for AI central.

That's an utterly insane sequence to play, but I would argue that hand was a losing hand from the start.