1 v 1 games are over as soon as someone gets AI Central

[HappyMeaI]

Yeh I would go metals power gen CSM, plenty of draw with guild/contacts, just get econ + electro cat going and play AI later.

Just pointing it out cuz this is a strong player, gen 1 AI, they even find -9 on space with Media (-12 on space events) and still lose pretty handily. I felt fairly confident gen 1 ai wasn't an issue, get a bit nervous later with quantum/mass but cuz they skipped nitrogen and joves were all cut they have no real way to score in the end game.

Obv i get some good cards too (most notably EC) but it's not like i have some absurd OP setup

Power is underrated in this game, esp. with CSM.

[Taruassassin]

So i have mostly skimmed this topic as it seems to derail at some points. I dont understand how Mars U is considered a BETTER draw card then AIC. It is cheaper yes and doesnt have requirements but it needs a flow of science cards(noting that each one bought/played counts towards the cost put into the engine) to keep going. Is it better bang for your MC in a short game yes very much. You get the 1 vp and at least 1 draw so definitely good. However once AIC is down it just draws no resoucres, or additional tags needed. If you opp gets all the big space card and can play them you probably lose because it will end fast. However i dont see this happening too often. Another thing is if luck is in the AI they can usually drop enough points to keep up with your terraforming score. I wont claim its insta win, however i feel it is unfairly strong for 1v1 play.

[RoyalRook]

It's very interesting for bogey to show a game to prove his point which his opponent makes blunders after blunders. In normal circumstances it's the early earth cat here getting rolled by AI, because the large cash and sp via earth cat typically getting out scaled by AI. For 2p games of course.

I talked about this before in my own post on this topic, AI IS income, and makes your opponent plays blind. It's not just the draw that dictates the game, that's AI's true power, because at higher level draft priority(info) and tempo wins a game not discounts and rebates.

Elo doesn't show the true skill level, as you can see with this 600 player. I donate elo all time bc of unfinished games, I am fine with that.

Mars U is very very good, depending on the gen count you take it over AI. For example on gen 12 you can safely pass AI but never mars u right? You can also draw more with mars u, defending on your hand and setup.

[StrandedKnight]

So i have mostly skimmed this topic as it seems to derail at some points. I dont understand how Mars U is considered a BETTER draw card then AIC. It is cheaper yes and doesnt have requirements but it needs a flow of science cards(noting that each one bought/played counts towards the cost put into the engine) to keep going. Is it better bang for your MC in a short game yes very much. You get the 1 vp and at least 1 draw so definitely good. However once AIC is down it just draws no resoucres, or additional tags needed. If you opp gets all the big space card and can play them you probably lose because it will end fast. However i dont see this happening too often. Another thing is if luck is in the AI they can usually drop enough points to keep up with your terraforming score. I wont claim its insta win, however i feel it is unfairly strong for 1v1 play.

Mars University will - on average - draw almost as many cards as AI Central when played.

Why? First of all, because you can get it down earlier. Second of all, because there is no limit to how many cards you can cycle per gen. It's not uncommon to cycle through 10+ cards if you have an early Mars U.

AI is probably still the better card overall, but it's close.

[FrankJones]

Mars U. can be super fun and super strong. Especially with Olympus conference! And Pluto, of course.

I had a wild sequence: I started the generation with some decent cards:
Herbivores
Media Archives
Red Spot Observatory
Floater Technology
Trans-Neptune Probe
Livestock
Large Convoy
Underground City

All of which were played in the sequence.

I also had:
Interstellar Colony Ship
Water Import From Europa
Tundra Farming
Jovian Lanterns

which would be played later.

And Lunar Beam, which would not get played.

In the draft, I bought Beam from a Thorium Asteroid, Corona Extractor, Greenhouses.

I started with one resource on Olympus and various discounts.

The sequence:

1) Pluto trade gave me Anti-gravity and some junk. But that started the crazy sequence. Note the incredible number of top-tier cards I drew and played that were not in my hand when this began:

2) Anti-gravity
3) Red Spot Observatory
4) Floater Technology.
5) .....[Ceres colony bonus]
6) .....[Use AI central]
7) Underground City
8) .....[use Floater Tech]
9) .....[Use Red Spot]
10) invention contest
11) .....[Use Business Network]
12) Earth Catapult
13) Mass Converter
14) .....[Plant conversion]
15) Quantum Extractor
16) Media Group
17) Hired Raiders
18) LaGrange
19) Space Station
20) investment Loan
21) Livestock
22) Imported Hydrogen
23) .....[Use Livestock]
24) Trans-Neptune
25) .....[Use Sub-zero Salt-fish
26) Large Convoy
27) Corona Extractor
28) Beam From a Thorium Asteroid
29) Gene Repair
30) Solar Probe (with 15 science tags)
31) Restricted Area
32) .....[Use R.A.]
33) Protected Valley
34) Mine
35) Nitrite-reducing Bacteria
36) .....[Use NRB]
37) Local Heat Trapping
38 Media Archives
39) Fuel Factory
40) Standard Technology
41) Nitrogen-rich asteroid
42) Molecular Printing
43) Rim Freighters
44) Herbivores
45) Greenhouses
46) .....[Plant conversion]
47) Tropical Resort
48) Adapted Lichen


I played 36 cards. I gained 27 new cards, and did 13 Mars U. swaps.

The results: TR +7
MC production +9
Steel Production +3
Titanium Production +1
Plant Production +2 (I was birdsed. Birded? Whatever. My opponent hit me with Birds.)
Energy Production +14
Heat Production +1

VP from cards +19
VP from resources on cards +14 more VP
Greenery VP: +3
City VP: +2
TR VP: +7

Total VP gained: 45.

This made it a close game, and we still had two more generations.

Fun stuff.


I'm sure crazier sequences have happened. I'd be interested to read any that anyone has.

[Andrei3009]

Mars U. can be super fun and super strong. Especially with Olympus conference! And Pluto, of course.

I had a wild sequence: I started the generation with some decent cards:
Herbivores
Media Archives
Red Spot Observatory
Floater Technology
Trans-Neptune Probe
Livestock
Large Convoy
Underground City

All of which were played in the sequence.

I also had:
Interstellar Colony Ship
Water Import From Europa
Tundra Farming
Jovian Lanterns

which would be played later.

And Lunar Beam, which would not get played.

In the draft, I bought Beam from a Thorium Asteroid, Corona Extractor, Greenhouses.

I started with one resource on Olympus and various discounts.

The sequence:

1) Pluto trade gave me Anti-gravity and some junk. But that started the crazy sequence. Note the incredible number of top-tier cards I drew and played that were not in my hand when this began:

2) Anti-gravity
3) Red Spot Observatory
4) Floater Technology.
5) .....[Ceres colony bonus]
6) .....[Use AI central]
7) Underground City
8) .....[use Floater Tech]
9) .....[Use Red Spot]
10) invention contest
11) .....[Use Business Network]
12) Earth Catapult
13) Mass Converter
14) .....[Plant conversion]
15) Quantum Extractor
16) Media Group
17) Hired Raiders
18) LaGrange
19) Space Station
20) investment Loan
21) Livestock
22) Imported Hydrogen
23) .....[Use Livestock]
24) Trans-Neptune
25) .....[Use Sub-zero Salt-fish
26) Large Convoy
27) Corona Extractor
28) Beam From a Thorium Asteroid
29) Gene Repair
30) Solar Probe (with 15 science tags)
31) Restricted Area
32) .....[Use R.A.]
33) Protected Valley
34) Mine
35) Nitrite-reducing Bacteria
36) .....[Use NRB]
37) Local Heat Trapping
38 Media Archives
39) Fuel Factory
40) Standard Technology
41) Nitrogen-rich asteroid
42) Molecular Printing
43) Rim Freighters
44) Herbivores
45) Greenhouses
46) .....[Plant conversion]
47) Tropical Resort
48) Adapted Lichen


I played 36 cards. I gained 27 new cards, and did 13 Mars U. swaps.

The results: TR +7
MC production +9
Steel Production +3
Titanium Production +1
Plant Production +2 (I was birdsed. Birded? Whatever. My opponent hit me with Birds.)
Energy Production +14
Heat Production +1

VP from cards +19
VP from resources on cards +14 more VP
Greenery VP: +3
City VP: +2
TR VP: +7

Total VP gained: 45.

This made it a close game, and we still had two more generations.

Fun stuff.


I'm sure crazier sequences have happened. I'd be interested to read any that anyone has.

There are video on ThreadPacifist channel about crazy scoring in one generation. I won't spoil anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26IyGRJ ... wJAYcqIYzv

[FrankJones]

There are video on ThreadPacifist channel about crazy scoring in one generation. I won't spoil anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26IyGRJ ... wJAYcqIYzv

This should be fun to see. 43 cards !

A couple of minor gripes:

1) "As we can see, Aspirin is losing". I doubt anyone would say a player with 43 cards and that pile of resources and effects and actions is "losing". behind in points at the moment, yes. But that's like saying a chess player who is behind by a rook is "losing" when he is two moves away from checkmating the opponent.

A minute later he says "Now we will see the danger of going another generation". As though there was an alternative? The terraforming is nowhere close to complete. Obviously if the other player had a magic card that dropped 5 oceans, 8 temperature bumps, and 7 oxygen bumps, he would have done so in gen 10 and won.

This isn't "a demonstration of going one more gen". This is a demonstration of what happens when a player has dozens of cards with discounts and a huge pile of resources.

Anyway, I think you showed it to me because of the crazy scoring that is about to happen, so, I will watch and enjoy, despite the odd narration and video title that don't seem to go well with the video.

[FrankJones]

Plus 108 points, minus 5 to opponent for the award, and all the terraforming completed!

That was an epic sequence indeed. Wow.

[sozabaru]

Mars U. can be super fun and super strong. Especially with Olympus conference! And Pluto, of course.

I had a wild sequence: I started the generation with some decent cards:
Herbivores
Media Archives
Red Spot Observatory
Floater Technology
Trans-Neptune Probe
Livestock
Large Convoy
Underground City

All of which were played in the sequence.

I also had:
Interstellar Colony Ship
Water Import From Europa
Tundra Farming
Jovian Lanterns

which would be played later.

And Lunar Beam, which would not get played.

In the draft, I bought Beam from a Thorium Asteroid, Corona Extractor, Greenhouses.

I started with one resource on Olympus and various discounts.

The sequence:

1) Pluto trade gave me Anti-gravity and some junk. But that started the crazy sequence. Note the incredible number of top-tier cards I drew and played that were not in my hand when this began:

2) Anti-gravity
3) Red Spot Observatory
4) Floater Technology.
5) .....[Ceres colony bonus]
6) .....[Use AI central]
7) Underground City
8) .....[use Floater Tech]
9) .....[Use Red Spot]
10) invention contest
11) .....[Use Business Network]
12) Earth Catapult
13) Mass Converter
14) .....[Plant conversion]
15) Quantum Extractor
16) Media Group
17) Hired Raiders
18) LaGrange
19) Space Station
20) investment Loan
21) Livestock
22) Imported Hydrogen
23) .....[Use Livestock]
24) Trans-Neptune
25) .....[Use Sub-zero Salt-fish
26) Large Convoy
27) Corona Extractor
28) Beam From a Thorium Asteroid
29) Gene Repair
30) Solar Probe (with 15 science tags)
31) Restricted Area
32) .....[Use R.A.]
33) Protected Valley
34) Mine
35) Nitrite-reducing Bacteria
36) .....[Use NRB]
37) Local Heat Trapping
38 Media Archives
39) Fuel Factory
40) Standard Technology
41) Nitrogen-rich asteroid
42) Molecular Printing
43) Rim Freighters
44) Herbivores
45) Greenhouses
46) .....[Plant conversion]
47) Tropical Resort
48) Adapted Lichen


I played 36 cards. I gained 27 new cards, and did 13 Mars U. swaps.

The results: TR +7
MC production +9
Steel Production +3
Titanium Production +1
Plant Production +2 (I was birdsed. Birded? Whatever. My opponent hit me with Birds.)
Energy Production +14
Heat Production +1

VP from cards +19
VP from resources on cards +14 more VP
Greenery VP: +3
City VP: +2
TR VP: +7

Total VP gained: 45.

This made it a close game, and we still had two more generations.

Fun stuff.


I'm sure crazier sequences have happened. I'd be interested to read any that anyone has.

There are video on ThreadPacifist channel about crazy scoring in one generation. I won't spoil anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26IyGRJ ... wJAYcqIYzv

this is one of my favourite TM vids of all time

[Taruassassin]

So i have mostly skimmed this topic as it seems to derail at some points. I dont understand how Mars U is considered a BETTER draw card then AIC. It is cheaper yes and doesnt have requirements but it needs a flow of science cards(noting that each one bought/played counts towards the cost put into the engine) to keep going. Is it better bang for your MC in a short game yes very much. You get the 1 vp and at least 1 draw so definitely good. However once AIC is down it just draws no resoucres, or additional tags needed. If you opp gets all the big space card and can play them you probably lose because it will end fast. However i dont see this happening too often. Another thing is if luck is in the AI they can usually drop enough points to keep up with your terraforming score. I wont claim its insta win, however i feel it is unfairly strong for 1v1 play.

Mars University will - on average - draw almost as many cards as AI Central when played.

Why? First of all, because you can get it down earlier. Second of all, because there is no limit to how many cards you can cycle per gen. It's not uncommon to cycle through 10+ cards if you have an early Mars U.

AI is probably still the better card overall, but it's close.

My point is Mars U requires more science tags to continue drawing. If science dries up and/or the opp is taking them it doesnt continue to draw. I wont say its not a better value card, however i cant call it the better draw engine because it need more resources than AI does. Honestly I have taken development center/restricted area over both many times because not hard to hang onto extra energy or 2mc.