BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

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NCJeff
Posts: 11
Joined: 18 April 2020, 21:30

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by NCJeff »

intelekt wrote: 13 February 2021, 16:21 I’ve been extremely civil and have asked you once already to point out where I’ve been “aggressive” or said anything that is not true.

Quite frankly, the fact the Greg took to the time post to all Stir Fry Eighteen players about this and shut the game off, but still hasn’t informed the community on a front page post about the sale, is extremely telling.

I’ve asked in 3 places now for anyone from BGA to please explain what Lie was told, no one can seem to respond to that with anything other than deflection.

I understand they don’t want me calling attention to unethical actions, which is why I’ve asked them to consider an ethical way forward.

Three days later, they’ve removed my game, committed slander, and still have not informed the community in a front page post like many people have asked in these threads.

Actions speak far louder than words.
Jeez dude, give it a rest. You've been all over this BGA message, Reddit, and who knows where else with the same argument. Greg and Emmanuel created BGA, they own(ed) it, it was theirs to do with as they please. They chose not to post the change of ownership on the main page. I can see the reasoning, it doesn't impact player functionality in the least. If there are changes in the future they may announce them differently. OK, you made a suggestion that it should be more prominent, then over and over and over.

You created Stir Fry Eighteen. You own it, its yours to do with as you please. Don't want it on BGA? Act like a professional and just ask them to take it down and go on your merry way. Because your game was part of BGA doesn't give you an ownership interest in the site. You have (had) the option to make your games premium which you declined. Perhaps you thought there was some magical way to monetize the free plays of your game. But they don't owe you or anyone a portion of the sales price and there's no legitimate argument that supports that suggestion.

Because other people volunteered time coding games doesn't give them an ownership right. That was known to them, or should have been known. Do moderators get an ownership interest in Reddit? Do playtesters get an ownership interest in your games? Did they people that coded it for BGA? People volunteered their time and had years worth of enjoyment out of their effort. Greg and Emmanuel volunteered years worth of their time and no doubt invested funds in creating and growing BGA. Now they've sold it, I doubt its at the level of Facebook buying Instagram where there's some insane pot of money. But good for them, they invested 10 years of their life in something and have reaped some level of reward.

Nothing but best wishes for BGA going forward. Certainly the site is at an inflection point. Six months from now (hopefully) covid is on the retreat and we can game in person. What does that mean for BGA? Now they have to opportunity to take it forward on more than a shoestring budget. What was done with Carnegie could be the start of a trend. More games on the site could yield more members, links to buy the game like with Carnegie. Maybe links to coupons, link to Target or Amazon to buy a copy. Maybe prices do go up. But this site is an absolute bargain and compared to the cost of a Netflix or Hulu subscription its a steal. Wouldn't change if it cost a buck more a month.
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intelekt
Posts: 29
Joined: 23 May 2015, 22:22

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by intelekt »

"All over this thread" - They've committed slander, I think I'm well within my right to respond. ;)

It would be nice if they'd respond to the actual issue we've brought up like many in this thread and elsewhere have asked.
Stroom
Posts: 428
Joined: 14 July 2016, 19:10

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by Stroom »

What makes BGA work is that some games are free to play. This brings in the players who want to check out the platform. Some of those players might become premium in order to play the games behind the paywall. Now, you would argue that those free games are the ones that bring in the players. Why not pay those games' publishers a percentage of the income from premium players? They clearly have an effect on the increased income.

If there are no good free games, there would be much less new non-premium players checking out the website. This would mean less people becoming premium players as well. Less players will eventually lead to a dying platform. Hanabi has lost a lot of good players in the last 2 months. This move won't make it better.

Now that Asmodee has taken over, it is more apparent that there is more profit to be made. And it is quite unfair that a huge corporation can profit off of these free to play games that actually increase the player base.
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ChatGrognon
Posts: 4
Joined: 18 August 2015, 01:39

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by ChatGrognon »

« Greg and Emmanuel created BGA, they own(ed) it, it was theirs to do with as they please. »

They surely have the legal right to sell BGA. But considering all the volunteering that made the success of BGA, it is a bit immoral for them to « cash in » all this free work.
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sourisdudesert
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Joined: 23 January 2010, 22:02

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by sourisdudesert »

Dear all,

There have been quite a lot of reactions to our announcement about BGA+Asmodee, with some subjects that have been raised several times, so we thought it deserves a little FAQ (this one). So as an exception => second forum thread to make this FAQ more "visible":

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19674
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dschingis27
Posts: 744
Joined: 27 June 2015, 18:30

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by dschingis27 »

(For disclosure: This post has been written before the FAQ became available.)

Certainly the free games bring in the players and indirectly increase premium sales. But this site could easily be similarly profitable with 10-15 flagship free games. The monetary value of yet another free niche game is insignificant imho. Yet all these games are offered for free for everyone including a free overall well-working metasite system. Even the premium games can be played for free with a bit of patience.

Let's have a look at the most popular free games on the site and who developed them, maybe BGA should at least compensate those developers. Here they are: 6nimmt!, Can't Stop, Alhambra, Stone Age were developed by... Boardgamearena itself! (meaning by the 2 former owners of this site). The most popular free game not developed by BGA itself is Kingdom Builder developed by Tisaac. Then comes Seasons developed by... Boardgamearena!

I can totally understand if some developers and publishers do not want to be part of BGA anymore. But as long as the games produced by volunteer labour will stay free of charge for everyone, I do not see anything close to unethical here.
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JPreto
Posts: 48
Joined: 09 September 2020, 23:43

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by JPreto »

intelekt wrote: 13 February 2021, 17:11 "All over this thread" - They've committed slander, I think I'm well within my right to respond. ;)
Just sue them... now they have the money! :lol:
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ViolentSilence
Posts: 236
Joined: 30 May 2015, 21:33

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by ViolentSilence »

Stroom wrote: 13 February 2021, 17:21Now that Asmodee has taken over, it is more apparent that there is more profit to be made. And it is quite unfair that a huge corporation can profit off of these free to play games that actually increase the player base.
That's not actually true. There is such a thing as a loss leader where you choose to make a loss on something to get a customer through the door, and this site may be a great vehicle for Asmodee for that. Give people a place where they can try out their titles for free, and it may help to get people to pick up the physical copies. This is never going to be as profitable as selling their own apps on a game by game basis, and it may actually be run at a slight loss as the costs give them that wider benefit. They might even relax the restriction on playing from the same IP address if that helps the accessibility for the loss leader side.

This is why I'm relatively unconcerned about the ownership situation - this is not a site which appears to be making vast sums of money, but it occupies a space in the ecosystem where it may serve a wider function by breaking even. I see people are asking for the free games to get revenue, but are they willing to sit through an ad or two before playing a free title? Are they willing to have all games Premium, so non-premium members can only play but not host a table? There is this weird notion that because people are rich, they can afford to have businesses suffering massive losses (see virtually any discussion about football club finances for example) but all that means is the business is unstable as soon as the owner cuts off the tap.

Asmodee can actually play nice with others - in the UK they wholly own the main distribution company. Keeping the variety of games as wide as possible on here is in their interest because it creates more entry points to the site, and if they own more distribution channels, they benefit from growing the gaming audience for all titles. It also increases the chance of people trying out their own titles, and they have the resources to commit to infrastructure growth, advertising and moderating on the site itself

I'm not blind to the issues with Asmodee - FFG seem to be falling apart under their ownership, and the replacement components thing is a horrible mistake if they aren't also making a huge investment in quality control on the production side - but there is no evidence that they can suddenly turn this site in to a huge money spinner, whereas the soft benefits if the deal actually make a lot more sense.

As for compensating developers, maybe that will come down to individual publishers - if Dice Hate Me wanted Compounded on the site (and I feel like they should as for me it's a better trading game than Catan), maybe it should be up to them to find a developer, and they can decide between them what the compensation should be. BGA to me makes sense as an industry wide platform, and because of that I'd be surprised if it isn't left flexible so that other publishers can interact with it however they want
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CharlieReddog
Posts: 22
Joined: 24 December 2019, 15:06

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by CharlieReddog »

Seems rather shady to have not posted this in the announcements forum, or indeed prominently on the front pages.

It's also disingenuous to suggest that there are 2 formats of games, those free and those behind the paywall and that they don't interact at all. Games that are free to play expand the range of options available and bring in players who may well then go onto take out a subscription or pay to play. It's Board Game Arena, not Carcassonne Arena after all. (Of course the reverse is also true but the free games get nothing out of that relationship per se)

Since Asmodee have their own digital platform, I cannot see a viable long term solution for two such platforms especially one which has other publishers work on it. This is an asset grab for customer base, nothing more.

That said, I don't blame the BGA owners for selling out, if someone came offering me a wallet of cash for something that was built on my efforts I'd be tempted. I can absolutely understand why other volunteers and developers feel somewhat aggrieved however.
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BoardNoremac
Posts: 53
Joined: 15 February 2021, 17:17

Re: BGA yesterday, now and tomorrow

Post by BoardNoremac »

Well I joined BGA Sunday I believe and have been quite impressed with it in general. Seems like a lot of people are really worried about Asmodee and some people are super angry about it and canceling their subscription out of spite even though nothing has changed as a user. Normally when I pay for a product I do it for what I get not "supporting a company". For $2 a month I can play some of my favorite games like Res Arcana and Dice Forge which is a great deal no matter who is in charge.

Maybe it is just me but right now BGA is pretty much the best way to play board games that I have found not on Steam and $24 a YEAR is quite amazing to play 200+ board games at anytime.

Everyone here seems to hate Asmodee but they have brought SO many board games to digital adaptations it has been great. Without them I am sure the amount of digital board games would be a lot lower... Of course this is just going from a digital perspective.
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