Board Game Arena

arisanana wrote: ↑29 July 2023, 04:55 Before I could register the fact that the concede button worked and said "Would you like to concede?", the other person accepted and the game ended, and we instantly got -10 ELO. I guess something finally happened somewhere? Not that there's been any announcement I can find to blast it anywhere...

Also, not here to complain about the -10 ELO because I'm in agreement that the "abandon the moment things start going a little south" requests were frustrating, just trying to find more official information somewhere and Hanabi seems relatively like the most likely active place to find info on the impact of the change from abandons to concedes

(Also, yes this little bit of English does matter, because it's reflected in the UI options AND in your personal game history.... Old games that I agreed to abandon still say "(Game abandoned)" but the incident above specified "(Game conceded)", beyond the ELO effect)

Dunno, I have personal musings over the whole thing that I don't particularly care to state but it's an interesting...change for sure, to say the least. Can't wait to see how it affects things, since abandonment has been one of the biggest QOL complaints in Hanabi for...well apparently at least 5 years?

Voilà: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 39#p148439

Travis Hall wrote: ↑24 February 2023, 01:14 (Bonus: it would improve the experience for competitive team games too. If everyone on one team wants to concede, mark it up as a loss for that team and a win for the other, immediately.)

This requires another major overhaul as the current BGA framework cannot recognize 'teams' correctly.
For example: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=11297

arisanana wrote: ↑29 July 2023, 04:55 Don't know if the changes apply to other coop games though, Hanabi is the only one I've been playing lately.

This change applies to all co-ops.

ufm wrote: ↑29 July 2023, 10:02

Travis Hall wrote: ↑24 February 2023, 01:14 (Bonus: it would improve the experience for competitive team games too. If everyone on one team wants to concede, mark it up as a loss for that team and a win for the other, immediately.)

This requires another major overhaul as the current BGA framework cannot recognize 'teams' correctly.
For example: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=11297

arisanana wrote: ↑29 July 2023, 04:55 Don't know if the changes apply to other coop games though, Hanabi is the only one I've been playing lately.

This change applies to all co-ops.

In spades it ask you if you want to concede before starting the next hand if you are losing by a lot. Most times though there is always one player who doesn't want to concede (or just ignores the option) even though their team is losing by infinity points :/

Like I assumed hanabi is just as toxic now as it was before the concede option change.

ChiefPointThief wrote: ↑29 July 2023, 11:13 In spades it ask you if you want to concede before starting the next hand if you are losing by a lot. Most times though there is always one player who doesn't want to concede (or just ignores the option) even though their team is losing by infinity points :/

Imo it should be addressed by adding a failsafe measure, like ending the game at -500 pts.

aesche wrote: ↑29 July 2023, 05:15 Voilà: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 39#p148439

Thanks aesche! I figured there had to be some sort of thread about releases that'd mention it but the only place I checked (Official Announcements) didn't have it so I gave up :')

What are peoples thoughts on how Hanabi has changed since the abandon changes?

I think it is ok mid to late game - but it is really frustrating when you setup a game with a convention and then a player joins who either doesn't know or refuses to play that convention. Previously, you would just chalk it up as a bad match up, abandon and move on - whereas now it feels like you are forced to play through a game that no-one has any interest in being in.

Perhaps there could be a grace period at the start of the game - eg 2 full rounds - (or up to 5% completion) or something like that where you can abandon the game with no penalty.
Alternatively, the penalty is 10 * completion (or even higher) so that abandoning at the start is cheap, but mid to end game you are best off seeing it through to completion.

I think the ideal imo, which would be a pain to implement would be something like: MIN(-10, MAX(max_possible_score_from_here, -20 * completion)). So from the midpoint of the game onwards, all abandons are -10. Up till then the cost of abandoning increases linearly, but there is never an ELO benefit to abandoning.

Could we also set the convention to default to "I never want to use" for all conventions other than standard. This will hopefully result in less players ending up in games with a convention they don't know or want to use.

How often does that happen anyway? Take the lose or play through. If anything, this makes all the players be more careful about what games they join.

I think it s better for hanabi. Eventually there will be some bad match up, that s how the game works. But you are led to achieve even an average result, despites early loses or such.

About people toxic behaviour well ... that didn't changed much.

Sombracier wrote: ↑10 August 2023, 15:21 About people toxic behaviour well ... that didn't changed much.

I don’t understand why people thought it would.