More than one year later (https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 02&t=12502 ), I came again, for talking about some even more advanced things.
So again, since it's the base of everything : it's good to save 2 (and generally 3, and sometimes 4) early on.
And generally you should give some clue as soon as possible.
I] When to play your card?
Someone tell you a playable card.
Nice. Now, do you play it immediately? Do you wait 1 turn cause there was a finesse possible and after you feel forced to play for not holding this playable card too long? Are you just not afraid to hold this card while 10 turns if you always got something better to do?
Answer 3
So, what is important to check when you have a playable card :
- Does your play lead to another play? Per example, if you know you have y2, and another player know he have y3, playing y2 will let him being able to play his y3.
But sometimes the chop of the player who hold y3 is useless, so playing y2 is still not too important because in the worst case, the other player will just discard.
- Does your play will make the hand of another player simple? Per example, if you know you have y2, and another player know his yellow card his either y3 or m5, but still doesn't know it. Or perhaps he suspect his card is m5. On this case, playing y2 is more safer. Doesn't mean you need to play it directly, but if you wait 1, 2, 3 turns, perhaps this player will be more and more confident it's m5, and will try to play it. So be carefull.
- Does your play make a card bluffable? You hold y2, and another player have y3 in #1 position, here most of the time, you should play it directly cause bluff are very valuable.
- Can you steal a clue from a player who have an useless card on chop? If the steal don't cost much (equal most of the time, is not in #1 position), I will perhaps surprise you, but you should most of the time steal it. You can still play your card later.
Chop management is very usefull, you can't know if your chop is very valuable or not. And if you play your card, perhaps next turn, you will be forced to discard, and then, you will discard an important card.
Of course, more you have play, and more you want some good argument for stealing (like not one, but two useless card).
And if the second chop of the stealing player is impostant, perhaps you should still play it, because if you steal, you really tell that the stealing player can discard safely.
Everything is situationnal, and depend of the value of everything, but I tried to give you the great line.
By the way, if you really don't like to keep these playable card too long, you can just play them, as soon as someone steal your clue OR if one stealing player have a good card in chop. While it's not the case, you just have no interest to play them.
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II] The different phase of the game :
The clue have not the same value depending of where you are at the game.
Phase 1 : all starting card are drawn as the same time.
It lead to the fact that no card could have been clued earlier. So playing rightmost is better.
And discarding is dangerous : you can totally have a 2 on your chop position cause it's impossible to save each card in each game. The goal is to minimise the loss, not losing too much 3, and trying to avoid losing a 2 which isn't in someone else hand.
Optional phase 1b : someone got a card to bluff and he decided to clue only this card.
Or someone steal one of your clue.
This mean that your hand is not very valuable. On the first possibility, you can deduce you have either some useless card, or some playable card which isn't on chop, or you have card which aren't too good to save (in worst case it's a 3 on the color of a 1 which wasn't played).
On the second possibility, for your last player point of view, your chop is less valuable than his more or less random chop since he decided to steal your clue.
Please note, there is some exception, but you can generally ignore them cause most of the time it will not be an exception.
Phase 2 : everyone have played/discaded/have been clued his started card.
All clue begin to slowly goes down, until we got only 1 or 2.
On this phase, clue stay really valuable, and you try to do some finesse and bluff for gaining some clue and make some card played and make some card saved.
You (or someone else) should do these clue as soon as possible. You have many clue to spend, and if you don't clue them as soon as possible, you take risk for the person to draw an annoying card (like the same card, or the same number multi card).
Phase 3 : same than phase 2, but we got no clue left
Sad.
Now you have even one more thing to manage, it's the number of clue left.
Sometimes, you have some choice to save X or Y card, sometimes you do a risky clue for trying to save some card...
Please note for all these previous phase, bluff (and finesse) are really good, you really need to have a good reason to steal a clue in the #1 position of another player. But you can find some, per example if the previous player can't be sure to have this card on hand (and if there no excellent bluff/finesse to do) OR if you know there is no or few chance to have a bluff/finesse possible (either cause you have many card saved or if last turn someone could have bluff one card and didn't do it) and if the previous player of the steal have an useless/few usefull chop.
It's the last moment where you can lost some important card (like a 3).
Phase 3.5 : things got nicer a little bit. We begin to have some clue in stock and no chop is in danger.
This phase is sometimes tricky cause you want to use some clue for trying to be safe/for trying to save a 4, but you still doesn't want to save a 4 and not being able to clue a playable card.
It's really hard sometimes to use the last clue left for telling to another player he can discard is #1 card which is an useless 1, for just saving his chop and your chop one more turn.
But I'm pretty sure, it should be the case (at least for 4/5players game) a lot more than we actually do. Cause we will soon enter in phase 4, the phase where you will have plenty of clue, so using one clue for chop management is just really good.
Phase 4 : we got lots of clue, and everyone is ready to discard.
We finally got some fresh air! Now, discarding a single not visible 4 is really bad. You really need to use the clue you have, and to steal the clue of others players even on #1 position, because the goal of a finesse it to gain some clue, it's few usefull now. The goal of a bluff is to gain some clue which are still useless and to save some important card. Most of the usefull card have been saved, and the last one can be easily saved by the stealing of all players.
Phase 4b : most (or all) usefull card have been saved.
Please note, this is a really lower priority of the phase 4. While the phase 4 can lead to -1 point ~10% of the time per card to save (if there is 10 card in deck), the other one is only annoying if most of the usefull card are at the bottom of the deck which is way more rare.
So now, linked with the phase 4, the goal is to manage the last turn of the game.
If someone have many plays, he should play one card each turn, and you should help him to do this.
If no player have to much card to play, you need to try to guess the last color who will be finished. It's generally the color where we are waiting for the other 2 (or 3) to came. And on this color, you need to have one player with a 5, the previous player to him/them with a 4, and the previous player to him/them with a 3.
Please note than a color where you are just waiting for one of the two 2, will most of the time been played before the end game.
Note too that a you want to keep a maximum number of duplicate card (like 4) until you know how will goes the last turn.
This is pretty complicated and situationnal. So you will need some experience.
Phase 1' : start of the game. Nobody have some 1.
Each time you will have a game like that where you will just clue 2 or 3 playable card and after you just have 8 clues while some turn you just do an empty clue, then the next player discard, then next player do an empty clue...
This kind of thinking is bad.
So with bga conventions, first of all, do NOT clue a card in #1 position. You want to have some bluff just for saving some card. Finesse are useless since you will have 8 clues soon.
And try to manage the chop. If all players except you have an useless chop, don't hesitate to give an empty clue, even if there is 7 clue left. You just try to keep the good card (like a 2) the most time possible.
So again, since it's the base of everything : it's good to save 2 (and generally 3, and sometimes 4) early on.
And generally you should give some clue as soon as possible.
I] When to play your card?
Someone tell you a playable card.
Nice. Now, do you play it immediately? Do you wait 1 turn cause there was a finesse possible and after you feel forced to play for not holding this playable card too long? Are you just not afraid to hold this card while 10 turns if you always got something better to do?
Answer 3
So, what is important to check when you have a playable card :
- Does your play lead to another play? Per example, if you know you have y2, and another player know he have y3, playing y2 will let him being able to play his y3.
But sometimes the chop of the player who hold y3 is useless, so playing y2 is still not too important because in the worst case, the other player will just discard.
- Does your play will make the hand of another player simple? Per example, if you know you have y2, and another player know his yellow card his either y3 or m5, but still doesn't know it. Or perhaps he suspect his card is m5. On this case, playing y2 is more safer. Doesn't mean you need to play it directly, but if you wait 1, 2, 3 turns, perhaps this player will be more and more confident it's m5, and will try to play it. So be carefull.
- Does your play make a card bluffable? You hold y2, and another player have y3 in #1 position, here most of the time, you should play it directly cause bluff are very valuable.
- Can you steal a clue from a player who have an useless card on chop? If the steal don't cost much (equal most of the time, is not in #1 position), I will perhaps surprise you, but you should most of the time steal it. You can still play your card later.
Chop management is very usefull, you can't know if your chop is very valuable or not. And if you play your card, perhaps next turn, you will be forced to discard, and then, you will discard an important card.
Of course, more you have play, and more you want some good argument for stealing (like not one, but two useless card).
And if the second chop of the stealing player is impostant, perhaps you should still play it, because if you steal, you really tell that the stealing player can discard safely.
Everything is situationnal, and depend of the value of everything, but I tried to give you the great line.
By the way, if you really don't like to keep these playable card too long, you can just play them, as soon as someone steal your clue OR if one stealing player have a good card in chop. While it's not the case, you just have no interest to play them.
-
-
-
II] The different phase of the game :
The clue have not the same value depending of where you are at the game.
Phase 1 : all starting card are drawn as the same time.
It lead to the fact that no card could have been clued earlier. So playing rightmost is better.
And discarding is dangerous : you can totally have a 2 on your chop position cause it's impossible to save each card in each game. The goal is to minimise the loss, not losing too much 3, and trying to avoid losing a 2 which isn't in someone else hand.
Optional phase 1b : someone got a card to bluff and he decided to clue only this card.
Or someone steal one of your clue.
This mean that your hand is not very valuable. On the first possibility, you can deduce you have either some useless card, or some playable card which isn't on chop, or you have card which aren't too good to save (in worst case it's a 3 on the color of a 1 which wasn't played).
On the second possibility, for your last player point of view, your chop is less valuable than his more or less random chop since he decided to steal your clue.
Please note, there is some exception, but you can generally ignore them cause most of the time it will not be an exception.
Phase 2 : everyone have played/discaded/have been clued his started card.
All clue begin to slowly goes down, until we got only 1 or 2.
On this phase, clue stay really valuable, and you try to do some finesse and bluff for gaining some clue and make some card played and make some card saved.
You (or someone else) should do these clue as soon as possible. You have many clue to spend, and if you don't clue them as soon as possible, you take risk for the person to draw an annoying card (like the same card, or the same number multi card).
Phase 3 : same than phase 2, but we got no clue left
Sad.
Now you have even one more thing to manage, it's the number of clue left.
Sometimes, you have some choice to save X or Y card, sometimes you do a risky clue for trying to save some card...
Please note for all these previous phase, bluff (and finesse) are really good, you really need to have a good reason to steal a clue in the #1 position of another player. But you can find some, per example if the previous player can't be sure to have this card on hand (and if there no excellent bluff/finesse to do) OR if you know there is no or few chance to have a bluff/finesse possible (either cause you have many card saved or if last turn someone could have bluff one card and didn't do it) and if the previous player of the steal have an useless/few usefull chop.
It's the last moment where you can lost some important card (like a 3).
Phase 3.5 : things got nicer a little bit. We begin to have some clue in stock and no chop is in danger.
This phase is sometimes tricky cause you want to use some clue for trying to be safe/for trying to save a 4, but you still doesn't want to save a 4 and not being able to clue a playable card.
It's really hard sometimes to use the last clue left for telling to another player he can discard is #1 card which is an useless 1, for just saving his chop and your chop one more turn.
But I'm pretty sure, it should be the case (at least for 4/5players game) a lot more than we actually do. Cause we will soon enter in phase 4, the phase where you will have plenty of clue, so using one clue for chop management is just really good.
Phase 4 : we got lots of clue, and everyone is ready to discard.
We finally got some fresh air! Now, discarding a single not visible 4 is really bad. You really need to use the clue you have, and to steal the clue of others players even on #1 position, because the goal of a finesse it to gain some clue, it's few usefull now. The goal of a bluff is to gain some clue which are still useless and to save some important card. Most of the usefull card have been saved, and the last one can be easily saved by the stealing of all players.
Phase 4b : most (or all) usefull card have been saved.
Please note, this is a really lower priority of the phase 4. While the phase 4 can lead to -1 point ~10% of the time per card to save (if there is 10 card in deck), the other one is only annoying if most of the usefull card are at the bottom of the deck which is way more rare.
So now, linked with the phase 4, the goal is to manage the last turn of the game.
If someone have many plays, he should play one card each turn, and you should help him to do this.
If no player have to much card to play, you need to try to guess the last color who will be finished. It's generally the color where we are waiting for the other 2 (or 3) to came. And on this color, you need to have one player with a 5, the previous player to him/them with a 4, and the previous player to him/them with a 3.
Please note than a color where you are just waiting for one of the two 2, will most of the time been played before the end game.
Note too that a you want to keep a maximum number of duplicate card (like 4) until you know how will goes the last turn.
This is pretty complicated and situationnal. So you will need some experience.
Phase 1' : start of the game. Nobody have some 1.
Each time you will have a game like that where you will just clue 2 or 3 playable card and after you just have 8 clues while some turn you just do an empty clue, then the next player discard, then next player do an empty clue...
This kind of thinking is bad.
So with bga conventions, first of all, do NOT clue a card in #1 position. You want to have some bluff just for saving some card. Finesse are useless since you will have 8 clues soon.
And try to manage the chop. If all players except you have an useless chop, don't hesitate to give an empty clue, even if there is 7 clue left. You just try to keep the good card (like a 2) the most time possible.