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Note on Ramsch

Posted: 24 January 2020, 16:41
by DrKarotte
Unlike Skat itself, the game-in-the-game called "Ramsch" has no official rules. As there have been bug reports on wrong handling/scoring I think it is a good idea to describe the Ramsch adaption on BGA.

A Ramsch game can only occur when no one wants to play. This means that no one has made a bid, and no one wants to play a Grand Hand instead of Ramsch.

The Ramsch on BGA mainly follows the so-called "Schiebe-Ramsch" ("schieben" = "push"; players move (push) the cards of the Skat), the scoring includes the idea of "Augen-Ramsch" ("Auge" = eye, here meaning points/score - all players score, not just the looser).

Before starting the Ramsch, all players have the opportunity to pick up the Skat and exchange cards from their hands. The removed cards are given to the next player. It is not allowed to remove jacks. For each player who does not pick up the cards, the score is doubled.

The player who won the last trick also takes the 2 Skat cards.

The players now count their points, and the player with the most scores them as minus points.

The score may be doubled several times.
* For every player who did not pick up Skat cards (max. score: x8)
* If (exactly) one player managed to get no trick at all (this player is called "Jungfrau" (virgin)).

So in a worst case scenario players may score their collected points x16.

Special case: If one player managed to get all tricks, he managed to do a "Durchmarsch" (made a clean sweep). In this case he is declared winner and scores 120 points, which might be multiplied if players did not take cards. If one player gets all the tricks, this of course means that the other 2 didn't get any trick, but in this case they are of course not regarded as "Jungfrau", and there is no multiplication.

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I might add a simple Ramsch as alternative option. This would be without the pushing (and score multiplication), and without the possibility to play Grand Hand. I'd like to stick to the scoring (all players score). Jungfrau and Durchmarsch are possible.

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 24 January 2020, 17:31
by RicardoRix
A game I played with Ramsch on and it was very confusing for us noobs.

The message said something like the Grand Hand was being played but it was also Ramsch. Turned out I think we should have been playing to lose - the winner got negative points, next round similar message about the Grand Hand but this time player that won got +ve points.

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 25 January 2020, 10:42
by DrKarotte
There was a bug with Ramsch/Grand Hand combo, perhaps the game you remember had been affected by this? Should be fixed, by the way. Hopefully... :?

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 12 March 2020, 16:53
by Pedros
Thanks for this. One other question - Wikipedia tells us that "Tens high" isn't always played and the points value of Tens are played differently in different schools. What have we in BGA?

Later Currently playing a Ramsch, so I'll add answers as/if I spot them. Firstly, Tens are between A and K as usual. Turn-based, so could be a while before I find the scoring!

Finally as qwertasdfg has already posted the ten counts its full points.

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 13 March 2020, 16:21
by qwertasdfg
Pedros wrote: 12 March 2020, 16:53 Thanks for this. One other question - Wikipedia tells us that "Tens high" isn't always played and the points value of Tens are played differently in different schools. What have we in BGA?

Later Currently playing a Ramsch, so I'll add answers as/if I spot them. Firstly, Tens are between A and K as usual. Turn-based, so could be a while before I find the scoring!
wikipedia just mentions some rules there that about .0001% of players play as some house rules. (Those "variants" aren't even mentioned in the German wikipedia; and this being a German game, it should be telling) Tens have their usual position and are worth ten pints of course.

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 15 March 2020, 11:22
by Pedros
I'll be posting this in Bugs, but just to note that at present the scoring seems to be different from what is written in the main post here - it was correct for the loser, but did not deduct points for the second place player (winner was Jungfrau and received zero anyway.)

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 15 March 2020, 18:00
by qwertasdfg
you really should not be doing a bug report about that. The way you described it is how a Ramsch works: Don't be the worst player as he gets points deducted. No idea why the main post writes something else, the main post is wrong.

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 12 April 2020, 21:26
by DrKarotte
qwertasdfg wrote: 15 March 2020, 18:00 you really should not be doing a bug report about that. The way you described it is how a Ramsch works: Don't be the worst player as he gets points deducted. No idea why the main post writes something else, the main post is wrong.
That's true. Sorry. I must have been completely confused when writing (and even underlining) this. I have corrected the post and updated the bug report.

By the way, I am currently working on an update which will offer standard Ramsch alongside to the current Schieberamsch.

Re: Note on Ramsch

Posted: 12 April 2020, 22:43
by KlausNY
Thank you for looking into the Ramsch and alternative scoring bug reports.

There is an excellent implementation of SKAT on the apple app store by GmbH & Co. KG called "SKAT lite". They have tournament scoring as an option and standard Ramsch as the default. It would be a good reference for the BGA version.

Re: Note on Ramsch: **small change please**

Posted: 05 August 2020, 16:17
by Pedros
Now that we have two versions of Ramsch. could the sin-up page please be altered so that it tells us which version we're signing up for? Causes problems if you dont realise until it happens!