Hanabi Fun Tips

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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

Test your skill with Hanabi Puzzle #106217372
2p: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=106217372
credit: pinacolada1202

As I recall, two major occurence in this game,
One observed / spotted during the game,
The other occurence noticed after the game.

I have only shared this with pinacolada1202

If you can spot what happen during the game,
Then do not post in forum, so others can spot the game.
If you cannot spot what happen in the game,
Then view it again after your elo +300 to 400 increase.

Hint: This 1 spot has nothing related to past 10 posts here.
Enjoy the fun!
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

Hanabi is a cooperative game which rewards players who work together.
So I learn the players on my table - why they made that move?

In my experience, there are 5 genre of players:

Disclaimers (2):
i. Not all players are 99% of 1 type. Instead a genre player means having a tendency most of the time. Some has mixed methods.
ii. Keep in mind some players can evolve/improve over time.

1. Logic & reason thinking players :geek:
Example: players who read the rule book which is only 1 page, knows how Hanabi works and when the Playing Area is empty, then all the cards clued #1 get played/fired unless being clued to prevent misfire red token.

2. Convention following players :roll:
Convention is a compilation of steps that these players follow.
Convention maybe written for different countries but they are still called convention.

3. Finesse players :arrow:
Notice there are 2 sub-categories

3.1 Finesse from convention
3.2 Finesse in spirit of the French word

finesse [ fi-ness ]
i. extreme delicacy or subtlety in action, performance, skill, discrimination, taste, etc.
ii. skill in handling a difficult or highly sensitive situation; adroit and artful management
Source: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/finesse

French are impressive, right?

Example: card gets clued #3, next player move to fire card on to play area.

4. Fun players :lol:
Play for fun seldom little/no effort to improve their game.
Or maybe some do want to improve their game while passing time.

5. Unclassified players :?:
One of the most important type because it prevents stereotyping players and continuously learn about players. Can also include NEW beginner.

Scenario:
Driving a car to a junction with traffic light, the surrounding is covered by a fog not visible. What would Hanabi types do?

Finesse convention style would step on the throttle to accelerate forward in a fog.
Finesse followers often incurs red tokens. They habitually look for signs to fire.
If there was a pedestrian on a foggy road, finesse player would run them over :lol:

Convention style metally refer to convention.
Often believing convention is rule that everyone must read or they will condemn you with red thumb vote :D
Rule = rulebook not convention. Pro-tip: Do not explain logic. Agree to abandon.
Such driver keeps driving to their destination. Another pedestrian casualty :lol:

Logic and reason style look to assess surrounding, think, prioritise, act.
So in a fog, switch on headlamps, blinkers and slowly maneuver vehicle to side of the road and park.
In game, respond to uncertainty by clue or safe discard for other players to clarify. :?:

Just because traffic light is green on a foggy road, do not mean you must accelerate 'GO' :arrow:

The best types of players to have on your table are players who understands you so cooperation plays well.

I began as a Fun type wrongly believing abandon game is cheating. :(

If BGA creators made abandon function into BGA then are BGA creators = cheaters?
So if people believe abandon = cheat then their membership in BGA means they support cheaters?

I reason that abandon game is not cheating. 8-)

Example if a girl defend herself from attackers and kills attackers. Should the girl be punish death for murder? It requires evidence examination before pronouncing judgement. In general, not guilty to such act of killing when she was in self defence. Yet killing is wrong. :evil:

More importantly, players spend time playing with me. If I make a mistake, they should not suffer for my inaccuracy. As such, agree to abandon game has enable me to access difficult decks only accessible by high level players and learn from skilled players. More people play with me too. Agree to abandon is rewarding. :D

Gradually I learn to think with logic and reason. :shock:

Example if clued colour to play then I value the most left coloured card to play,
but if clued number in middle/right then I value the most right numbered card to keep.
So clues are not just to play / keep but also communicating which card my player value. :!:

Today my style is mixed with logic and reason.
Because I learn my players moves that makes it mixed. ;)
I bias towards prudent and frugal that makes me poor at logic and reason. :P

Between logic-and-reason and finesse, I find one style is superior over another. :twisted:

1. More players common denominator in reason than finesse. :)
2. Reason starts by view/assess but finesse/convention habitually seek signs to play fire. :roll:
3. Finesse can have contradictory signals :cry:

Besides who writes/calls a technique 'reverse bluff' ?
Should it be called, 'fulb' instead?
Since reverse bluff spelling = ffulb ... :D
Logically isn't reverse bluff = honesty ? ... :D :lol:

When some players ask if you know finesse = sure sign they cannot learn/adapt in game. It takes finesse to understand such sign :lol:
(if you want to practise finesse or certain method, just write a note on table)

4. Lots of players get confused by finesse resulting in misfires :lol:
5. Also some players tell me they cannot early save a card. :shock:
So if 2 rare cards going into discard position / chop then ...
... it is just ridiculous when tokens keep running out :lol:

If you like to learn convention, I hear 1 convention was 70 pages long.
I respect rules. Not violate the law. I rather not live in North Korea.
Keep memorizing steps and sequence but there are chances for error. :P

So I can never be SpdGonzales. My weakness is convention. :mrgreen:

Logic and reason can be better at adapting to human error.
Logic and reason can achieve finesse spirit (not convention)
Logic and reason can adapt to different/difficult decks (later forum post)

But the best method depends on you, your players and deck dealt. :idea:
https://boardgamearena.com/3/hanabi?table=117289269 credit: Comfort

If you disagree, do not lose pull your hair, find players you understand or will learn your way and always remember...

By the way, What did you learn from this forum post?
People usually learn what they like and not the lesson. ;)

If you can learn players on your table well enough,
then you may be able to employ your players to
orchestra the most beautiful hanabi fireworks possible. :D

Can you employ Hanabi players to good use? :twisted:

5p https://boardgamearena.com/4/hanabi?table=117344494
credit: Kaperkapitein, CarpeDiem, MadameJou, TchiL; end 29 elo +5
We did not all agree on method as you can see red token occured.
There were finesse moves that I did not understand. :lol:
When players have positive attitude to cooperate to make the game work! 8-)

...Have fun! :D
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Romain672
Posts: 1016
Joined: 05 April 2016, 13:53

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Romain672 »

You talked about lots of interresting stuff. I will react to some of them:

- Finesses: Most of the persons which play with 'instinctive' conventions plays with that one. I know logical leftism don't (except if there is no other explanation), but that's pretty much the exception.

- Reverse bluff: It's a very interresting way to play. Most players doesn't play with it. There is some spot which are general called 'out of position bluff' which are similar which is when your next player can't mess up what happen which is more commun (because logical), but these spots are rare. But there is some others spots, like if your next player got something to do, you could decide to make these reverse bluff works on that spot. That's not bad, especially if it was a clue your next player couldn't do for any reason.

- Early save: I will not talk much about it, because it's really complicated. Not allowing them are effecient. Allowing them lets players have
more liberty to choose which person will discard.

- For the 70 pages of conventions, yeah usually these kind of documents are pretty long if they are complete. For mine (if you were refered to it) I send you to specific sections depending of 'your' level. And it's only a document of conventions, it's a document of logical tips too, which are rarely explained in this kind of doc, but it came at the cost of being way more longer.
And the second third are optimizations. The third third are only for those who likes theory or fancy stuff.
So in short, you reduce that to 10 pages easily.

That will be all :)
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

Example of convention followers game.

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=119642106
lost two 3R so restarted game
both games credit: Signy33 and GreenPenguin

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=119641036
clue #1 instead of clue RED to play which would have clarify 5M
refuse to clarify two 5B even with sufficient tokens, said so by the player who did it.

Towards end game clue COLOUR instead of #4 which both 4 are ready to be played as a result losing 1 round turn
As a result, could not complete score 29

To top it all off...
both convention players blame other player for losing 5W.

Would you like to read 70 or 10 pages of convention?
.... No for me :lol:

Players following conventions religiously, lose their ability to think as above games. Convention has the ability to dumb people down. Moral of the story, just exit the table and play with people who are willing to understand you. It will be better game to have fun :D
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

This is a 2 part post.

When people assigned to a busy road to count red cars passing,
researchers found car counters became sensitive to red cars,
and less observant of other cars, colours, and vehicles.

I am not going to describe this game,
to let you see for yourself.

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=120171366
credit: mendousse

If you are highly skill Hanabi player choose the view of Mendousse.

The next post, will share a couple of observations (spoiler alert)
Have fun. :)
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

Part 2: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=120171366
See above post first.
Spoler warning.

This game contains 2-players finesse which are rare.
Not the convention finesse where players keep looking for cues to fire.
But finesse spirit where players skillfully solve a difficult situation.

You can skip Narration direct to two Observations.
The narration gives context to the observations.
Asks, 'what would you do at move 56 ?'

Game Flow Narration
Mendousse hand began : 4w 1g 2w 3r 1y
Mendousse was careful in moves sequence to avoid misfire #1

Move 13 discard
Move 15 clue 3

Move 30 clue 3 -> clog hand unable to discard
Khoo1 play clue
Mendousse clarify
Players swap holding cards. Hand released
Move 33 discard 2w

Move 36 Mendousse clue green
Move 37 discard 4R
Move 38 clue B
Move 39 clue #4 -> clog hand Mendousse sees: 4 5 5w 2w 3
Actual: 4R 5G 5M 2W 3R and 1 token remain.
Players go shopping for card to release hand or meet with fate.

Move 46 clue W
Move 47 fire 1W - release arrives
Move 48 fire 2W - receive 3Y unmark playable
Move 49 discard - 3Y
Move 51 clue Blue - 0 token
Move 52 fire 4B - receives 3G unmark rare

Move 54 clue 2
Move 55 fire 2 - land 2R
Move 56 fire 1st left unmark - misfires lost 3R rare *
Zero blue token
Khoo1 sees: ? ? 3M 4G 5Y
Mendousse sees: ? 4 5 5M 3

Firstly I like to express that it was a privilege to play with Mendousse.
Let's analyse the hand and deck.

What would you do at Move 56 ?
...

Is there a better move for Move 56 ?
...

I believe there is.

First we understand the context. Then I present the 2 observations.

I am not a fan of finesse because most finesse players tune their brain to look at moves as cue to fire which often misfires. Just like car counters.

Finesse convention are worst because some cues conflict other cue.
Convention that contradicts itself has confuse lots of gamers.

Why not consider logic and reason?

At your turn, 1st move = Assess situation
= Determine priority
= Sequence moves
= Decide action -> move

I said, "move" not "fire"
Imagine how much less misfire would occur.
How much more RELIABLE you will become.

Observation 1
The first discard 3R visible at Discard Pile
Then saved #3, first #3 saved.
What do you think is the uncolour #3 saved is ... ?

Most of the time I play casually not card counting. Is there other method?

Observation 2
Mendousse sees: ? 4 5 5M 3

Do you see it?
That extra information in that hand. It's right there.

At highest very difficulty setting, games require 2 different colours to reveal multicolour

All the older cards from 5M,
which on BGA are cards to the right of 5M are...
not 5, not M, meaning the #3 is not 3M.

Now, would you take a blind risk and
blindly, random, wild, erratic, unjustified, fire 1st left or
calculated risk to deduce what is the 1st right position #3 ?

Such is an example of finesse in 2p game.

Pro-tip: Observation 3

Khoo1 saw:
Move 48 fire 2W - receive 3Y unmark playable

The deck bait Khoo1, no reason that deck would bait Mendousse too.

As much as I try to be prudent avoid risk, I risk depending circumstance.
For example: towards end game,
most cards reveal on Playing Area, Discard, clued on hand, where
I can deduce with more information at hand, on what I can do next.
So my risk taking is calculated risk and not blind faith guess.

If you like to guess, go play with paper money at online casino.
Then you will find out that poker is not a game of chance.
Professional poker players will show you poker is a game of skill.

...so is Hanabi.

Furthermore, nearing end game, where deck is tight, token low, turns limited no time to clue, is this not the best time to use 1 or 2 red tokens?

But only if you did not waste it guessing mid-game resulting misfire.

Bonus tip:
One red token is worth 3 blue tokens.
1. You discard instead of misfire = gains 1 token
2. Misfire lost 1 turn is value at = 1 token
3. End game no turn to clue, you can fire unmark = 1 token

Move 57 Khoo1 discard 3M while holding another 3M marked.
Mendousse was seeing both 3M got baited, but on the wrong card.
Move 59 Khoo1 fire 2G - Playing Area 2R 2Y 2G 4B 3W 1M
Discard pile 3B = gone, 3W = gone.
What is that #3 on 1st right?

Pro-tip 2:
Whenever I am uncertain, I move to ...
... ask my team players for clarification
By giving them a token (by discard) if time permits.

Thank you Mendousse for the educational example. Praise Mendousse for discipline of not misfiring 5G.

I hope you find that Hanabi is not just a game, but can be an entertaining learning experience, and you can use the skill to make better decisions in your life.

When you do, you can have fun!
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

Ju2citron wrote: 30 October 2020, 16:53 Hello,
I'm new to this site, and I'm glad to found this forum.

Because I love hannabi (but not my family) so I was happy to be able to play online, but in the end I never managed to finish a round because everyone wants to give up after few minutes

!!! and I didn't understand why...
Apparently some gamers even refuse to play with me because I don't have a good ELO and/or a good Karma ?

It gave me a bad image of this website ! until I come across your posts. I understand better why but it still saddens me a lot...
In the end it will be very hard for me to find a "good place" because my score will not increase even though I know this game well.


Welcome Ju2citron,
(I hope your family loves you and you love them for who they are)

I have same experience of players give up in a few minutes. :(
I am no expert but I will share tips if you have a few minutes:
> How to play Hanabi until the game ends with ELO
> How to land players in Hanabi without good ELO

You know the difficulty in finding players.
That is how vital ELO and karma are to players. :!:

In forum & chats, some state,
"ELO number means nothing" or "just a game"
...then why don't they play with people in level apprentice. :roll:

Imagine you have 1000 ELO and 100 karma.
Such people disrespect you having ELO and karma.
No respect, can cooperate? So they red thumb your karma?

Do not become stupid :x angry, red thumb them there,
find their competitive game and beat them there. :twisted:

Better still, respect your Hanabi table players. :)
When not clue-to-play, but misfires, is that disrespect?
When clue-to-keep, but misfires, is that betrayal of trust?
Suddenly traitor expect players to still show respect. :lol:
So choose to play with people whom you respect. :geek:

If not, play other great BoardGameArena.com games for only $4. :D

Also consider your case.
When you have low ELO hence you have little to lose.
So Hanabi players are afraid you do not play properly lose.

Two high ELO players win may only add 2 ELO.
But players lose may reduce 5 times of 2 ELO. :shock:
High level decks are not easy to win ELO. :o
See why Hanabi players are careful of ELO. :roll:

Hanabi is a cooperative game, not competitive.
Hanabi is also a game of skill :ugeek: , not chance.

Skillful = Careful

I hear that high level game, if lose twin #4 of one colour
then there is no point to finish the game as lost is clear.
In fact, if players do not understand or trust each other,
Is it still Hanabi? Are they playing you :evil: ? Are you clear?!

If you miss, should other players suffer a lost because of you?
Players spend time with you, seek to abandon, is it OK with you?
Or do you drag them in mud until the end because it pleases you? :|

When you miss or make a mistake, are you not a shame? :oops:
Do you want others to drag you around in shame? :(
Now understand players end Hanabi in a few minutes. :idea:

If you do not understand or care about players in your table,
can you really cooperate to complete the Hanabi on your table?

If yes, then here are a few tips

1. Start table, change setting from Normal to Training
Most players will finish a game set for training. :mrgreen:

If you want to learn, ask "why make that move?"
If you make a mistake, :oops: seek guidance.
If you value them, 8-) say sorry for mistake.
If play well, :geek: invite the player to another game.
Try set new table from Training :mrgreen: to Normal game.

2. Avoid slow move, chat too much, refuse abandon :idea:
No BGA.com rule states that it is illegal to abandon :!:
It's not 'just game' to skilled gamers :ugeek: even if abandon.

3. Learn your players, Learn the deck, Entertain them :lol:
Be reliable because people around you are counting on you.

Here is a game I played with a master:
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=120595449
Hanabi games do not often finish favourably for master. :|

Here is a game a master played with me in training:
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=120046201
When you respect people, some will like you in training. :mrgreen:

Here is a game with a player 50% less ELO than me:
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=120368594
So play with people around your level and appreciate. :arrow:

As N_Faker stated, Hanabi community in BGA.com are unfriendly.
Do not frustrate. Play other games where you can be unfriendly. :twisted:

Have fun! :lol:
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

One player's use of clue token:

Opening use = 1 clue token
First 30 moves = 1 token
Besides opening, 30 moves = 0 token

Move 31 = 1 token
Move 39 = 1 token
Gane progress 79% = 1 player used 3 tokens

Move 65 = 1 token
Move 67 = 1 token
Complete 81 moves, 1 player in 1 game used 5 tokens.

Setting: Very difficult, Official variant
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=120886311
credit: einatgu 8-) End: 30 Red tokens: 0

Einatgu, making Hanabi great again :D
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Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

Hanabi game example explicit use of red token bomb at move 11 to save 2 rare cards
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=129049813
credit: Vtantia score: 30 elo: +2 red token: 1
User avatar
Khoo1
Posts: 72
Joined: 20 October 2016, 13:21

Re: Hanabi Fun Tips

Post by Khoo1 »

1st game with Zbloub

Hanabi game start time: 02/11/2020 19:38:48
Hanabi game finish time: 19:44:59
Hanabi game completed in 6 minutes and 11 seconds
https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=121099251

https://boardgamearena.com/6/hanabi?table=121099251
credit: Zbloub End: 30 Red tokens: 0

Zbloub, just do it! :D

Happy New Year!
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