Board Game Arena

How is it possible that in Arena mode I lost 30 points with one person who has an ELO higher than mine in Normal mode only because he has played in Arena mode a little number of matches and he is in a lower championship than me?

There is a enormous problem in this way of calculate points.

Please make something.

One main purpose of Arena mode is to have a ranking system independent of ELO. While there is a strong correlation (people high in one system tend to be high in the other), they are independent measurements.

Jest Phulin wrote: ↑02 August 2020, 19:45 While there is a strong correlation (people high in one system tend to be high in the other), they are independent measurements.

The crucial point is that the Arena measurement is a particularly bad measurement (and no correlation to Elo) as long as a player has not played a certain amount of games in the season.

One solution could be that during the first 10-20 season games of a player, his/her opponents get EAS points based on the Elo of the player rather than on the players totally obscure EAS rating.

dschingis27 wrote: ↑03 August 2020, 11:38

Jest Phulin wrote: ↑02 August 2020, 19:45 While there is a strong correlation (people high in one system tend to be high in the other), they are independent measurements.

The crucial point is that the Arena measurement is a particularly bad measurement (and no correlation to Elo) as long as a player has not played a certain amount of games in the season.

One solution could be that during the first 10-20 season games of a player, his/her opponents get EAS points based on the Elo of the player rather than on the players totally obscure EAS rating.

It is a bad estimation assuming everyone is equal, but using Elo in any way would just encourage people to tank Elo. There are more complex models that could be used...like an Elo based iterative solution where provisional players (those with say less than 5 arena games played) would have little influence on the ratings of others.

An iterative solution would run all completed games through the Elo system ~3 times, with decreasing K value each time...say 40 then 16 then 6. The first pass through will get players into the ballpark of their true rating (assuming sufficient games played), while the latter iterations help to reduce the game to game variation and the impact of players who haven't played many games. Also, if players haven't completed 5 games they don't get an Elo at all, after 5 games they'd get an Elo but since calculations are run 3 times they will have a more accurate Elo by the time you get to the 2nd and 3rd iterations so it will have minimal negative impact on the opponent's they beat in those games.

This solution would make it harder to display real time ratings since all ratings have to be recomputed from the beginning to get there, but it helps with more than just the new to arena player problem. It reduces game to game variation. It places more importance on all games, instead of so much focus being on the recently played games...like if you play 100 arena games the first 50-60 make virtually no difference...as things are very heavily weighted to the last handful of games.

That last part is one of the main problems of Arena imo, also correlates with 'sniping', hence the possible solutions offered in this and other topics such as rating decay.
Arena is not showcasing the ranking over the entire season but indeed more from the last x-games of given player.
It's more about 'who gets the best streak' than performing during the entire season.
With 'simple games' you have,imo, more incentive to play. Like you can allways try to get higher in ELO. This ranking is more visible to other players (more rewarding if you like this) and offers the possibility to really play with players from your strenght (restrict table acces based on rating). This way the random/variance doesn't hit as hard, and you will get a closer ranking matching your skill level than your Arena ranking.
In Arena you only have the possibility to filter on league, this is somewhat helpfull at the beginning of the season. But for popular games a few weeks in the season this means you have at least 400 arena points between 1st and 'worst' player, making it very hard to climb in elite (if you hit a good streak and position, very very low reward to continue playing). When you look at ELO scores, by this time you are facing people with 100 ELO in Elite league.

I still like Arena mode, but it needs some tweaking.

There is a very easy solution to this problem.

In the Arena mode the system should automatically match 2 persons only if they currently are in the same league or maximum that has the difference of 1 league.

For example:
A (bronze league) vs B (bronze league)
or
A (gold league) vs B (platinum league).

You can already choose this in the settings(click the gear symbol).
The problem is that league filter is not enough. For popular games, few weeks in the season the arena is flooded with players in Elite league, hence you encounter games with 400 and more arena points difference and face -relatively- weak opponents in Elite league.
As the higher ranked player you are basicly throwing points (arena and elo rank) away by continue playing Arena.

Nuovo wrote: ↑05 August 2020, 18:15 There is a very easy solution to this problem.

In the Arena mode the system should automatically match 2 persons only if they currently are in the same league or maximum that has the difference of 1 league.

For example:
A (bronze league) vs B (bronze league)
or
A (gold league) vs B (platinum league).

You can set up that condition in the settings - with the wheel, separately for every game, on the „play now“ page between your current rank and the heart.

Thanks for advice.

The problem can't be solved neither by my solution, nor by options.

The only way is: + 10 points for victory - 10 points for defeat. In every possible situation.

Can someone of BGA above hear me?

aesche wrote: ↑05 August 2020, 18:38

Nuovo wrote: ↑05 August 2020, 18:15 There is a very easy solution to this problem.

In the Arena mode the system should automatically match 2 persons only if they currently are in the same league or maximum that has the difference of 1 league.

For example:
A (bronze league) vs B (bronze league)
or
A (gold league) vs B (platinum league).

You can set up that condition in the settings - with the wheel, separately for every game, on the „play now“ page between your current rank and the heart.

It's doesn't work, I have Me (bronze league) vs B (elite league) in a four leagues game (connect 4)
And rallyman gt too (bronze) me again vs B (elite), don't know how many leagues are there though.