I tried the Diplomat this morning, and I almost immediately hated it. He replaces the Duke, but instead of getting 3 coins, he only gets 2 and he has to give 1 to someone else. Which, yeah, I suppose you could pay someone not to make a very non-binding promise not to kill you, but I'd rather just make money and kill them instead. Plus, at the end of the game, if your opponent has a Captain, at least with the Duke, you're not automatically dead. Should the Diplomat's action give him a little more money to offset the downside? 3, or even 4?
Why is the Diplomat so weak?
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Re: Why is the Diplomat so weak?
Alternative characters are not meant to be as good or as bad as what they replace. They are meant to change the balance.
The Diplomat is weak, which mean that peoples are less likely to keep it, which mean that you have more chance to be able to use foreign help without being blocked, which leads to a different game, which is the goal.
But indeed, out of the 15 characters existing for coup (that's how many I have in my physical version of the game), BGA has the base 5, the Inquisitor which was the first alternative character, and the Diplomat which is far from the most interesting character. There is probably some license problem to put all the new characters, but that's unfortunate that it's the Diplomat that made the cut.
Example of much more interesting character I use IRL: the Witch.
She can block the assassin like the character she replaces, but has an additional effect: whenever you have a death, you can claim that the card you're discarding is a Witch (bluff or truth) and put it face down instead of face up. If you do so and no one successfully doubt it (normal rules), you get 5 coins.
The Diplomat is weak, which mean that peoples are less likely to keep it, which mean that you have more chance to be able to use foreign help without being blocked, which leads to a different game, which is the goal.
But indeed, out of the 15 characters existing for coup (that's how many I have in my physical version of the game), BGA has the base 5, the Inquisitor which was the first alternative character, and the Diplomat which is far from the most interesting character. There is probably some license problem to put all the new characters, but that's unfortunate that it's the Diplomat that made the cut.
Example of much more interesting character I use IRL: the Witch.
She can block the assassin like the character she replaces, but has an additional effect: whenever you have a death, you can claim that the card you're discarding is a Witch (bluff or truth) and put it face down instead of face up. If you do so and no one successfully doubt it (normal rules), you get 5 coins.
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admiralspunky
- Posts: 40
- Joined: 06 September 2013, 23:18
Re: Why is the Diplomat so weak?
It'd be a little difficult to implement the witch on BGA, because that would require a whole extra interaction. It'd be easy to tweak the existing action of the Diplomat, though. And I could possibly implement other characters, as long as they aren't too complicated, programmatically.
What 15 roles do you have? I'm guessing that you have 3 options for each slot. Coup G54 has some interesting roles: https://boardgamegeek.com/file/download ... ter%29.pdf
What 15 roles do you have? I'm guessing that you have 3 options for each slot. Coup G54 has some interesting roles: https://boardgamegeek.com/file/download ... ter%29.pdf
Re: Why is the Diplomat so weak?
My game is in French (so I put in bracket what I assume is the translation), and all of them are included in the expansion, "Complots 2".
La duchesse (Duke) (genderswap for some reason?)
Both replacements blocks foreign help.
L'ursuline (Ursuline) can gain 3 coins but must give one of them to another player of their choice. [An Ursuline is a kind of nun. Yes, that's the same effect as the Diplomat, but the Diplomat was never released under that name in France as far as I know.]
L'illusioniste (Illusionist) can gain 4 coins. When she does so, any other player can claim to be illusionist too (they can be doubted). She must give 1 of those coin to each of them (unless they are successfully doubted). If more than 4 peoples claim to be illusionist without being successfully doubted, she chooses who get 1 coin and who doesn't.
L'assassin (Assassin)
Both replacements are blocked by contessa-like characters.
Le bourreau (Executioner) can assassinate someone for 3 coins, if successful, the target gains those 3 coins as a compensation.
Le maître chanteur (Blackmailer) can threaten to assassinate someone for 3 coins. If successful, as for the executioner, the target gains those 3 coins as a compensation. On top of the usual ways to counter this, the target can give 3 coins to the blackmailer to block the assassination.
[So IRL, it resolves like this: the blackmailer gives 3 coin to the target and says "die or give me back 6 coins"]
La comptesse (Contessa)
Both replacements blocks assassins-like characters.
La croque-mort (Undertaker) additionally receives all the gold from the fully eliminated players. (When a player is eliminated, if multiple peoples claim to be the undertaker and are not successfully doubted, they evenly share the money. The few coins that cannot be evenly shared are lost)
When la sorcière (Witch) is in play, peoples losing a life can discard face-down claiming that the discarded card is a witch (they can be doubted). If nobody successfully doubt them, they gain 5 coins.
L'ambassadeur (Ambassador) et l'inquisiteur (Inquisitor)
The new replacement also blocks captain-like characters.
L'espion (Spy) can draw 1 and discard 1 card, then can pay 1 coin to do it again. He can continue to pay coins to draw/discard as many times as he wants to.
Le capitaine (Captain):
Both replacements blocks captain-like characters.
Both replacements are blocked by captain-like characters and ambassador-like characters.
Le justicier (Vigilante) steals 3 coins from one of the richest players, but must then give 3 coins to one of the poorest player (potentially himself).
Le pape (Pope) steals 1 coin from everyone else (so they gain 1 coin per other player still playing). Players who block this effect only protect themselves.
La duchesse (Duke) (genderswap for some reason?)
Both replacements blocks foreign help.
L'ursuline (Ursuline) can gain 3 coins but must give one of them to another player of their choice. [An Ursuline is a kind of nun. Yes, that's the same effect as the Diplomat, but the Diplomat was never released under that name in France as far as I know.]
L'illusioniste (Illusionist) can gain 4 coins. When she does so, any other player can claim to be illusionist too (they can be doubted). She must give 1 of those coin to each of them (unless they are successfully doubted). If more than 4 peoples claim to be illusionist without being successfully doubted, she chooses who get 1 coin and who doesn't.
L'assassin (Assassin)
Both replacements are blocked by contessa-like characters.
Le bourreau (Executioner) can assassinate someone for 3 coins, if successful, the target gains those 3 coins as a compensation.
Le maître chanteur (Blackmailer) can threaten to assassinate someone for 3 coins. If successful, as for the executioner, the target gains those 3 coins as a compensation. On top of the usual ways to counter this, the target can give 3 coins to the blackmailer to block the assassination.
[So IRL, it resolves like this: the blackmailer gives 3 coin to the target and says "die or give me back 6 coins"]
La comptesse (Contessa)
Both replacements blocks assassins-like characters.
La croque-mort (Undertaker) additionally receives all the gold from the fully eliminated players. (When a player is eliminated, if multiple peoples claim to be the undertaker and are not successfully doubted, they evenly share the money. The few coins that cannot be evenly shared are lost)
When la sorcière (Witch) is in play, peoples losing a life can discard face-down claiming that the discarded card is a witch (they can be doubted). If nobody successfully doubt them, they gain 5 coins.
L'ambassadeur (Ambassador) et l'inquisiteur (Inquisitor)
The new replacement also blocks captain-like characters.
L'espion (Spy) can draw 1 and discard 1 card, then can pay 1 coin to do it again. He can continue to pay coins to draw/discard as many times as he wants to.
Le capitaine (Captain):
Both replacements blocks captain-like characters.
Both replacements are blocked by captain-like characters and ambassador-like characters.
Le justicier (Vigilante) steals 3 coins from one of the richest players, but must then give 3 coins to one of the poorest player (potentially himself).
Le pape (Pope) steals 1 coin from everyone else (so they gain 1 coin per other player still playing). Players who block this effect only protect themselves.