No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Forum rules
Please DO NOT POST BUGS on this forum. Please report (and vote) bugs on : https://boardgamearena.com/#!bugs
User avatar
Silene
Posts: 788
Joined: 23 October 2013, 17:50

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by Silene »

RicardoRix wrote: 03 August 2022, 15:23
Silene wrote: 03 August 2022, 15:07 This is great news! Wanna play a game?
Sure, after the update.

You can teach me how to win ;) I've not played in a few years.
I haven't played that often because there was no undo function when you can't execute the chosen action :lol:
Can you let me know when the update is?
Hosting Allround-League: https://boardgamearena.com/group?id=7870115 --> a league where you have matches of random games vs. other players in your group - season 6 started in Nov. '23 with 128 participants.
MoiMagnus
Posts: 356
Joined: 17 March 2020, 20:15

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by MoiMagnus »

bananasplay wrote: 03 August 2022, 03:22
MoiMagnus wrote: 01 August 2022, 22:40 You could learn to program, and even if it takes a few years, you probably would be able to fix this issue by yourself before anyone else does. In fact, that's pretty much how things work on BGA: if none of the regular players of a game take the responsibility to maintain it, no bug is fixed and no suggestion is implemented.
Are you seriously suggesting that someone learn to program so that he can provide free labour to a site owned by a multinational corporation worth billions of Euros?
I mean, that's how a huge part of internet works.
Most youtubers do their work for free.
Most peoples that code mods or community patchs on steam or on various forums do their work for free.
Same for peoples maintaining fanbase alive through releasing community through various means.

As for BGA, you could argue that premium subscription should pay for that but in practice they don't:
(1) Troyes is not premium.
(2) Premium subscription mostly goes to paying licenses to editors and to paying the servers. And while there are a few employees, they're not that many and I'd guess most of them are focussed on community management (moderating, dealing with reports, etc) or maintaining the site itself.

Sometimes, some companies pay for some devs to implement their game, but Pearl Games is not one of those, and I'm not even sure even one of the companies that pay dev to implement new games also pay someone to maintain the game after its release. As for Asmodee's acquisition, it's unlikely to change anything to BGA's system, except maybe for some games they own and want to push.

I'm not saying that's a good situation, but currently, if you want something fixed on a game that isn't in the top 50 of the most played games, you have to wait for a generous soul like RicardoRix to provide free labour to BGA, or provide free labour yourself. Sure, it's maintaining a flawed system, but that's by far the easiest way to get what you want.
User avatar
RicardoRix
Posts: 2110
Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by RicardoRix »

MoiMagnus wrote: 03 August 2022, 22:36 a generous soul like RicardoRix to provide free labour to BGA
Not sure I have a soul after I sold it for cider when I was 14. But I'll take the compliment. ;)
User avatar
cigma
Posts: 911
Joined: 15 December 2020, 00:30

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by cigma »

RicardoRix wrote: 03 August 2022, 10:11 But I just went through some of the bugs and fixed them.
Thank you :D
#zan_zendegi_azadi / #woman_life_freedom
#StandWithUkraine
Language is a source of misunderstanding. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery: The Little Prince) But it is also the source of understanding - it all depends on how you use it. :-)
User avatar
capnemo-1734
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 April 2022, 00:47

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by capnemo-1734 »

I've had the same experience (although not a game-losing move), but frustrating in any case. I chose to draft an opponent's die to seize a location and then I realize I don't have enough influence points to recruit a new meeple. The UI requires me to displace my own meeple from elsewhere, although I would prefer not to.

The frustration in online implementations happens being required to follow through on mistake because the UI doesn't let you back out. These kinds of mistakes don't happen in real life because once you realize the goof, you just fix the move. "Oops, I don't have the influence points to do that. I'll do this instead!"

Reversibility belongs in the bones of the framework
I know we're not allowed to mention competing sites by name so I'll just say another big board game site (hundreds of games) implements all their games with what looks to be a functional (as in functional programming) interface (e.g. Functional Core, Imperative Shell). The mishaps are rare using this model. Even Beyond the Stars, here, which has a good deal of undo to prevent most boneheaded moves, doesn't prevent them all the way the other site does. While BGA has some of the nicest looking implementations, the frustration of being required to "do dumb things" leaves one with a bad feeling every time it happens. It's feasible for a framework to make this sort of goof impossible.

I've had this happen quite a few times on BGA and almost never on the other site. And playing a game for several weeks only to culminate in an epic fail which is more UI than player, stinks.

I know some will say, "know the rules" but one of the reasons one gravitates to online games is being able to try lots of new ones. And when you're learning games you're apt to misunderstand or forget the odd rule—and need a way to rewind.

This is the kind of thing which should ideally be built into the core framework. I'm a programmer by trade. A board game is just an event log (think event sourcing) with an initial big-bang state and a bunch of events mutating that state. Some events provide the user with new information. Those are irreversible (even the other site observes this rule!) and should be marked accordingly. But most events should be reversible, at least until the user commits (e.g. unit of work).

Take Barenpark, implemented here on BGA. It has a try mode which is useful but awkward. When the core translates from an event log with limited reversibility, you don't need a try mode. Every game on the other site I mention has "try mode" built in. Undo exists for each discrete move up until the point where new information is revealed.
User avatar
morita-san
Posts: 1
Joined: 07 December 2021, 00:30

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by morita-san »

RicardoRix wrote: 03 August 2022, 10:11 Could not reproduce the not enough dice to fight the black dice. I think here players don't realise they have to use ALL their dice (or at least multiple) in some instances.
I ran into this issue yesterday night when trying this game out for the first time. 3 player game. It was my turn to counter the black dice, there were two of them a 6 and a 1.

I had 3 yellow dice, all with a value of 2. I used my influence to re-roll 2 into 1, and then attempted another re-roll and went from 1 into 1. At that point I ran out of influence.

Perhaps the bug is occurring because I could have fought off the black die with my original set of 3 yellow dice all with a value of 2, but after failing to re-roll twice in a row, our game was soft locked and we had to abandon it. No combination of selected black dice or my own dice would let us get through.
User avatar
RicardoRix
Posts: 2110
Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by RicardoRix »

I've not heard from BGA in all these months after fixing all the bugs for Troyes.

I've sent about 5 emails, and raised 3 tickets. Absolute zero response - Nada. BGA don't like me. I can't force them.
bananasplay
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 May 2018, 16:43

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by bananasplay »

RicardoRix wrote: 29 December 2022, 09:25 I've not heard from BGA in all these months after fixing all the bugs for Troyes.

I've sent about 5 emails, and raised 3 tickets. Absolute zero response - Nada. BGA don't like me. I can't force them.
I've detected a consistent condescension towards the player base for quite some time now, but that they'd ignore someone giving them free labour is quite something else—truly next-level dont-give-a-...

OTOH, if they don't care about players, why should they care about efforts to make the experience here better for players?

But thanks nonetheless for your efforts, RicardoRix!
Please check my profile for a list of bugs that need upvotes so that BGA will maybe get around to fixing them.
User avatar
Silene
Posts: 788
Joined: 23 October 2013, 17:50

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by Silene »

RicardoRix wrote: 29 December 2022, 09:25 I've not heard from BGA in all these months after fixing all the bugs for Troyes.

I've sent about 5 emails, and raised 3 tickets. Absolute zero response - Nada. BGA don't like me. I can't force them.
Ow this is sad :(
I was really looking forward to this fix. But most of all I feel bad for you having put in all this work without it getting applied...
Hosting Allround-League: https://boardgamearena.com/group?id=7870115 --> a league where you have matches of random games vs. other players in your group - season 6 started in Nov. '23 with 128 participants.
Kodama Mumia Smedley
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 May 2022, 12:31

Re: No undo in the interface --> I'm not using it anymore.

Post by Kodama Mumia Smedley »

I don't see an undo.

I chose an action using dice, planning to place a meeple in a building only to find out I don't have enough influence to purchase a meeple.

Pointless to remove a meeple to place one when I'm trying to get more dice for the next round
Post Reply

Return to “Troyes”