Board Game Arena

It is utterly useless -- it does not determine the actual skill of most players, and, more importantly, it fundamentally alters game strategy by enticing players to play for second place when there is, in the real world, no actual reason to. Just get rid of it. And if you can't do that, create three options: Arena mode, ELO mode, and regular mode (not training mode) -- most players will not join a training mode game because they have bought in to your ELO mode, which I think is meant to create a competitive spirit, but it does not.

I'm personally OK for displaying the number of game played instead of displaying the ELO.
[Possibly even displaying 2 numbers: (1) number of game played on this game and (2) number of game played with this exact options & number of players.]
That would still convey the main purpose of ELO : knowing if you're playing with a beginner or not.

more importantly, it fundamentally alters game strategy by enticing players to play for second place when there is, in the real world, no actual reason to.

Player also play like that IRL, at least on tables where I've been on. Not on all games, as it doesn't make any sense in "victory condition" games ("first to reach something wins") unless peoples can continue playing after the first person won. But I've definitely seen it on "victory points" kind of games ("at the end of the game, the player with the most X win") on a regular basis.

michlang wrote: ↑15 April 2021, 02:34 It is utterly useless -- it does not determine the actual skill of most players, and, more importantly, it fundamentally alters game strategy by enticing players to play for second place when there is, in the real world, no actual reason to. Just get rid of it. And if you can't do that, create three options: Arena mode, ELO mode, and regular mode (not training mode) -- most players will not join a training mode game because they have bought in to your ELO mode, which I think is meant to create a competitive spirit, but it does not.

If you don't care for Elo just don't care for 2nd place... While in the "real world" there two kind of games:
- tournament games, where making 2nd or 3rd place can make a difference
- friendly games, where it can still make a difference for bragging rights
Fighting for a spot that you can earn is also usually the most polite way to avoid kingmaking as well. So I don't see why we should only play in "Winner takes all" mode, and why Elo on BGA could ruin the game experience.

michlang wrote: ↑15 April 2021, 02:34 create three options: Arena mode, ELO mode, and regular mode (not training mode) -- most players will not join a training mode game because they have bought in to your ELO mode

So you really think the semantic difference in calling it "regular mode" instead of "training mode" will trick people into playing regular mode? If they care so much about ELO that they are avoiding training games (which is your premise), they are avoiding it because it doesn't affect ELO, not because of its name.

Meeplelowda wrote: ↑19 April 2021, 21:15

michlang wrote: ↑15 April 2021, 02:34 create three options: Arena mode, ELO mode, and regular mode (not training mode) -- most players will not join a training mode game because they have bought in to your ELO mode

So you really think the semantic difference in calling it "regular mode" instead of "training mode" will trick people into playing regular mode? If they care so much about ELO that they are avoiding training games (which is your premise), they are avoiding it because it doesn't affect ELO, not because of its name.

Training mode is not a good description and serves very little purpose.
I avoid training mode because it doesn't have any time limits. Just because you are learning a game doesn't mean you don't want it to move on swiftly.

I am starting to see more and more the potential benefit of this idea. All with time restraints.

There are some games and probably a lot of players that want to play without the competitive edge always surrounding it. I definitely avoid playing games I am crap at but still enjoy like Tash-Kalah and the reason for this is because of the ELO attached to the game which internally makes me think that I should avoid the game because I should be playing a game I am better at and not showing myself up.
It's a stupid train of thought but true.
And I'm definitely NOT joining tables with no time limits, as even the name suggests it's for friends only.

ELO as a factor definitely overshadows the play experience here on BGA. Mostly it's very positive, but sometimes it's negative and it's easy to see why some players might even not want to play with it at all.

Under serious competition games - Arena.
Semi competitive - ELO (normal).
Casual Play - ELO off.
Training mode - ELO off and anyone can quit without penalty.

RicardoRix wrote: ↑20 April 2021, 09:39 Under serious competition games - Arena.
Semi competitive - ELO (normal).
Casual Play - ELO off.
Training mode - ELO off and anyone can quit without penalty.

This seem reasonable. I'd still like to have a training mode with no time limit. I *do* play with friends and we need to be able to take a bathroom break or go get a beer without the timer harassing us for the rest of the game.