Board Game Arena

Hi,

I've got the "feeling" that first player has a strong advantage on this game. Do you have stats on that ?

if you have statistics, you need to distinguish:

how often did player 1 win if there was no lord

how often did player 1 win if there was a lord

First player advanatage is way bigger than Lord advantage. I'm pretty sure the data is in favour of first player in any combination (including lords).

What do you think gives the first player a strong advantage?

I have noticed that in games with 5+ players, sometimes the first few players take the best special tiles, so if you're 4th or later, you may be at a significant disadvantage in that case. This doesn't seem to be the case in 3 player games and usually not in 4 player either. And even in games with 5+ players, the 2nd and 3rd players still usually have their choice of first tile about as much as the first player does (for all of them, it depends on the luck of their first card draw).

But I'm curious what would cause a special advantage to the first player in particular, and regardless of how many players are in the game. Can you say more?

Now that I'm more experienced, I also see that the first player is at a disadvantage with lords unless being first helps them snag more extra tile tokens than the other players, and sometimes even then. And the last player has a very big advantage with lords in about half the lords games I've played: When several quadrants are close, on the last turn, they know exactly which quadrants they need to place tiles in to be ahead by one, without anyone else being able to catch up with them.

There are a lot of lucky/unlucky things that might happen in a game of Kingdom Builder. I just consider being first player (or 2nd with lords) as one of those lucky/unlucky draws. You can definitely win against much stronger player by getting lucky and vice versa. Who goes first is just one of those steps. Skill will only show on the long run. Not necessarily in a single game.
(I only play 2p game)

First off I don't play with lords and strictly played 1v1. First player definitely has an advantage and sometimes can be very hard to counter certain starts if they get an ideal drop and you have no way to counter it. It doesn't mean an auto loss but having first player certainly id beneficial.

Sometimes you get lucky with the draws! Sometimes you don't!

When I win, it is because I am a good player.
When I lose, it is because of bad luck.
It does not matter if I play first or not.

I've played a LOT more games since I first asked here, and I still don't really see it. Some people have stated or implied that the first player has an advantage, but nobody has really explained why or given examples. The closest was the assertion that the first player may get an ideal position to drop in, but as far as I can tell that's just as likely to happen for the second and third players, and depends a lot on what color they draw first. And as for lords, I'm convinced the last player has the advantage there, not the first.

If there is actual data demonstrating the first player has a strong advantage, that would be interesting to know. But for now, it seems to me that there isn't much of an advantage to going first.

BTW, I play games with 2, 3, 4, and 5 players, though I don't do 5 player very often, so I'm less familiar with that. For games with 2, 3, or 4 players, though, I don't think I've seen much advantage in going first - the colors you draw your first two turns make a much much bigger difference in your luck than the turn order.

ringersoll wrote: ↑19 November 2022, 13:30 When I win, it is because I am a good player.
When I lose, it is because of bad luck.
It does not matter if I play first or not.

looks like we have the same playstyle!